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Merrick 2148 posts |
Oct 31, 2006, 15:03
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But anthony, having children is a physical thing which some people's bodies do, therefore everyone has a right to it. In the same way, the NHS should also pay for treatment so we all have the right to be five foot ten.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Oct 31, 2006, 15:13
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Hear Hear. I'm very re-assured to know that there are other people in the world who feel this way, as the number of my friends from throughout my lifetime who've now settled down and had kids, or are planning to, has now reached double figures. I'm 35 still feel absolutely no urge to breed whatsoever. I was beginning to think I was the last one standing.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Oct 31, 2006, 15:38
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It's not just about your urges, it's about taking responsibility too. My non-parenthood is political. I don't hold with the hooey about it being too morally corrupt a world to bring children into. It's always been this good (or bad) in that sense. But the overpopulation is terrifying. My grandparents were born into a world of 1 billion people, whereas (if I live a normal lifespan), I'll die in a world of 10 billion. I look at a picture of my grandparents and imagine 9 other people stood behind my gran, another 9 behind grandad. Then the same for every other person of every age, right out around the world at that time. Those ten billion are all going to need to eat. This crunch will come at the same time as oil and gas supplies will have peaked so the agrichemicals they make that give us our bumper crops will have become prohibitively expensive. Exacerbate that with rising sea levels ruining much of the most productive land and the middle of this century starts to look pretty ugly. We need as few people as possible competing for those resources. In the meantime, our children wildly overconsume. By the time it has its first birthday, a Biritsh child has already consumed more resources than a Tanzanian consumes in a lifetime. Even the most switched on people I know do it. A very aware household I know with a baby are using cotton nappies rather than disposables. It means they use their washing machine more times in a week than I do in a year. If I drove an SUV I'd be (rightly) vilified. Yet a baby consumes way more reources than that. Procreation is the greatest act of unnecessary resource consumption a person ever commits. But somehow it's always bad form to mention it.
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Jane 3024 posts |
Oct 31, 2006, 17:45
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I agree with every word, Merrick. Politicians don't talk about over-population and calling for restrictions on family size is taboo.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Nov 01, 2006, 00:56
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That's all true. However, I think that for most people, genetic selfishness overcomes such considerations. Over-consumption is indeed an issue which is going to get more and more out of hand - especially in our corner of the world where population density is increasing to a degree which is already out of control - but I also find it objectionable (as Shanshee Allures pointed out) that people who choose not to reproduce for personal reasons are branded as being more selfishly autistic than those who do. If anything, the contrary is true - most of the people I know who've had kids seem to me to do it for purely self-serving reasons (because they have a partner who wants to and are afraid to lose them, because they want to regard thesmselves as grown-up and mature, or because their ego drives them to want to leave a piece of themselves behind after they die etc etc.) Not only that, some of the excuses such folk invent in order to justify their actions are unbelieveably sophistic (such as "we want to educate the next generation to make the world a better place for those left behind after us" - very ncie in theory, but in practise at not convincing, considering the number of other ways in which it's possible to contribute towards human enlightenment).
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laresident 861 posts |
Nov 01, 2006, 01:27
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It is very bad form, especially in front of a mum with a screaming child or two. That aside, I was under the impression that many of the industrialised countries have taken it all on board and have a dramatically declining birth rate.
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laresident 861 posts |
Nov 01, 2006, 01:30
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It is very bad form, especially in front of a mum with a screaming child or two. That aside, I was under the impression that many of the industrialised countries have taken it all on board and have a dramatically declining birth rate.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Edited Nov 01, 2006, 08:53
Nov 01, 2006, 08:47
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I can't think of a single unselfish reason to have children. It's certainly the ultimate unenvironmental thing to do. So rationally I suppose I shouldn't have any. I haven't had any 'by accident' yet so I don't see that happening. It is yet another thing to look at and decide you want to do the opposite to most people round you, which is tiring. My recently departed great uncle was intelligent, left wing, lived on his own, had no children, didn't mind an untidy house.. my aunt's family though he was totally weird. Looks like I could proudly carry on the baton; I guess we share some genes. Mind you, who knows what could happen. That's the weird thing about having children. It's either yes or no and either would change how your life panned out. I suppose at least I've got a choice, unlike my foremothers, who ended up with half a dozen. Anyway I can't really see the attraction of babies. Children are ok.
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Nov 01, 2006, 08:56
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For a minute, I was wondering where you were going with that.
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Daminxa 1415 posts |
Nov 01, 2006, 11:49
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Yeah but isn't China's population rate about to take a nosedive? I mean, for ages they were only allowed to have one kid per family and that kid was more often than not a boy (girls being drowned at birth) with the net result that in the younger generations, men far outnumber women and therefore little chance of starting a family. Failing that, viruses will always be one step ahead of us so disease will act as a biological population control to some extent. Added to which, the West's effort to exploit and starve Africa and parts of Asia into oblivion will bring the population down further still, along with Dubya waging a few more un-winnable wars in which thousands of civilians, as well as Allied troops, are wiped out. My guess is that ultimately the human race will self destruct, don't you worry about that. I'm also guessing we'll die out (probably due to our own stupidity) before the planet is entirely destroyed so whatever we leave behind us (probably insects) will do quite nicely without us thank you. In the meantime, I'll take my chances at parenthood. I fully appreciate people's right not to have kids if they don't want them. I don't condemn my friends who have chosen not to breed; they have their reasons and I respect their choice. And yes, part of me really wishes that people were vetted before they were allowed to breed but then who's to say I'd pass that test? All I know is that having kids was the best thing I ever did. My kids give me unconditional love, hope for the future and a reason to get up in the morning - a lot more than any paid work ever gave me. OK there are probably several people who'll jump on me and say these are really crap selfish reasons to have kids - all I know is that my life would be one fuck of a waste of time if I didn't have my children. I'd just be sat in a shitty office somewhere pushing bits of paper around and wanting to jump out of the seventh storey window and do my very own bit for population control...
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