morfe
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 08:44
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"we're all just a pre-programmed mess, quite unfitted to make moral or logical choices"
Ooof! And now who's making sweeping statements!
The old moralic acid eh, eating away at our ability to be radical survivalists, or social animals or herds of stampeding wildegeeks.
Seriously, how are we unfitted to make logical choices, Nigel? This does interest me greatly.
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morfe
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 08:47
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I mean how do *you* see it.
I actually think I agree with you, that logic is impeded by emotion of course. But the absence of emotion would see that logic be a little too red in tooth and claw to be, er, logical?
Oh ye gods, I can see this becoming a 'what is emotion, really?' kind of thread ;-)
I'm orf to to do some illogical stuff cap'n, back later...
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morfe
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 08:55
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"Actually, probably not. My genes wouldn't let me"
If that were true, then it would challenge the very fact that chimpanzees kill and eat each other and other monkeys. Savagely. No?
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nigelswift
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 09:01
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"Seriously, how are we unfitted to make logical choices, Nigel? This does interest me greatly."
I'm labouring under the influence of my son, who is trying to develop a theory of everything ;) in which he reckons an awful lot more of what we think and feel and like and dislike is connected to evolutionary survival than is currently recognised.
Once you start thinking along those lines you can construct your own confirmation. It seems to work. Whatever you like or don't like could have a plausible survival rationale if you go back far enough, even, if necessary, to our prehuman forebears and conditions. Try it...
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mercian
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 09:54
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what difference is there between lab rats and landfill site rats.hundreds of rats are squashed under the metal studded wheels of the giant shit moving bulldozers every day. do we protest. boycott or ignore? i suppose sewer rats arnt as nice as lab rats
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Nat
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 10:00
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What, I'm confused???? I don't understand where you are coming from? Lab rats are bred specifically by human beans for use in a lab and have no choice but to be in that lab, can't run away, can't escape, have no choice on food etc. Rats on rubbish dumps are there because they have a choice - stay on dump run the risk of being squished or leave the dump and not be squished - no boundaries/cages/buildings people making decisions for them, can shag and breed when the heck they like!!! I don't really understand where you are coming from there.... lol... :o)
Nat
(Owner of 7 pet rats 2 of which are ex-lab rats and Max who is a HUGE big bugger and could well have come off a dump lol...)
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Nat
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 10:02
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Rats are rats and are all blimmin gorgeous, doesn't bother me if they are lab/sewer/posh fancy bred rats!! :o)
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BSSM Steiner
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 11:15
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hi hob -
although i'm broadly pro-vivisection (apart from for cosmetics and other non-essential items like viagra) the point of my posting was to illicit an explanation of the 'anti-vivisection but still uses medicines' position from someone, but on that score all i got was dee spouting angry platitudes.
as i see it, there's doublethink at the heart of the anti-vivsectionist mindset; most anti-vivsectionists seem to beleive that humans are just another animal and as such do not have the 'right' to use animals for their benefit. but surely by adopting a superior, paternalistic, even god-like attitude to animals and treating them as beings to be cared for rather than as something to eat and wear, humans are actually distancing themselves from the mass of animal life on the planet. other animals don't give two shits about each other. they kill each other in the most awful ways, often for fun rather than sustenance. i mean, is there a more cynical, selfish, arch-wanker of an animal on this earth than the house cat? a scowl at one end and a bared arese-hole at the other!
thanks for your thoughtful response though. more than i managed to get out of any of the anti-vivsectionists on HH!
peace love and meat
ben
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Rolling Ronnie
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 11:25
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I tend to agree. Most humans have a preference for making instinctive choices instead of cold reasoning in my experience.
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Vybik Jon
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Re: anti-vivisectionists on medication?
Sep 08, 2005, 11:25
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"this request is out of genuine interest cos it's a position i don't understand and i would like to hear the other side of the argument. "
That's bollocks.
Like every other thread you've started on HH forums, you've stuck in a statement that you know will generate heated responses and stood back. You had your position sorted from the off and couldn't give a toss about any arguments from other angles.
You're real useful, BSSM Steiner. Thanks.
And no, I'm not going to read any reply you make. Say hello to Lemon when you see him.
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