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Lord Lucan 2702 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 16:45
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/markosmoulitsas/story/0,15139,1342263,00.html
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Lord Lucan 2702 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 16:54
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Bush is unpopular, at home and abroad, he's causing economic and social chaos at home and choas abroad and still Kerry can't win. It's Kerry's fault. He didn't inspire the American people. He was uncharismatic and lacked passion and failed, incredibly, to discredit Bush convincingly when it should have been like shooting fish in a barrel. You need a very potent weapon to unseat an incumbent. The Democrats simply didn't have that in Kerry.
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 17:58
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Humbug! Sorry LL, but I don't believe for a moment it's Kerry's fault. The democrats should have been able to nominate a half-eaten can of skipjack tuna as their candidate and still won by a landslide in any sane nation. The world has endured four years of having a _bona-fide_ imbecile in charge of all the bombs. And America has voted (over half of a large turnout) to continue that state of affairs. So it clearly didn't matter who the democrats put up. The people who voted Bush would have voted that way even if Kerry *had* been Mr. Charisma... even if Dick Cheney personally took a dump on their doorstep. Bush's supporters didn't vote for him because Kerry didn't excite them. They voted for him because they bought into his whole 'Good Vs. Evil' Schtick. They voted for him because he's gonna put an end to the murderous practice of abortion... because he's gonna make sure the American family isn't shaken to it's very core by gay marriage... and because - despite plunging the world deeper into violence following September 11th 2001, instead of drawing us back from it, making the whole planet a more extreme, hateful and dangerous place - Dubya is firm, resolute, and clearly a man of God. Bush didn't win the election. Kerry didn't lose it. The US public simply demonstrated that more than half of them are completely mad.
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dave clarkson 2988 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 18:24
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...there are many dark days ahead.
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The Chink 4 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 19:02
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There are. And the world is going to hell. Humankind has written its fate & now Mr Bush will lead us into the darkness. We don't have to follow though.
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Popel Vooje 5373 posts |
Nov 03, 2004, 23:33
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Can somebody wake me up in 2008, please? I think I'm going to stock up on Temazepam and hibernate for the next four years.
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Nov 04, 2004, 03:10
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[rant on] I hate to tell you guys this . . . but it's precisely this insulting & childish rhetoric that just handed the Republicans a major victory. The "FUCK BUSH" mantra may stir up kids under 35, but they don't show up at the polls (only 10% of 18-24 year olds voted yesterday -- sorry Diddy!). But the important thing is that when people over 50 see a bunch of stoners in dreadlocks with Kerry stickers shouting "FUCK BUSH!" at the top of their lungs, they get disgusted and say "this country is going to hell in a handbasket -- what happened to the democratic party?!?! They used to have some class!" And the key thing is, PEOPLE OVER 50 ACTUALLY VOTE. The dem strategy of surrounding their candidate with a bunch of rock stars & hollywood elites backfired horribly. Again, that kinda stuff only appeals to KIDS, and KIDS DON'T VOTE!! Fahrenheit 9/11 was another example -- as I argued here months ago, I am convinced this film HELPED BUSH WIN. Because it alienated far more middle-aged middle-Americans than it convinced 18-24 year olds who don't vote anyway. Fewer than 20 million people in the US saw that film (out of 300 million population, 120 million who voted) -- seriously, how many of that film's audience do you think were people over age 50? How many people with bifocals and grey hair that YOU know like to get their political news via flashy rapidly-edited MTV-style images with deafening rock music in surround sound in a movie theatre at the mall? None that I know of . . . . This election seems to me a clear repudiation of the "juvenilization" of the left wing of the American polity. Which is almost a rerun of the 60's -- when Nixon won I'm sure the hippies just COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW STUPID "AMERICANS" WERE!!!!! And so they went out in the streets shaking their fists and howling "FUCK NIXON!!!" at the top of their lungs. Which of course gave Nixon an even bigger landslide the 2nd time. Now I want to make something perfectly clear: I am NOT a conservative nor a republican. I say these things because THE LEFT DESPERATELY NEEDS TO HEAR IT. I am your friend. I can help you, but you have to be willing to help yourself. Personalizing issues by demonizing a single person (i.e. "FUCK BUSH") will not change anyone's opinion. In fact it will make you appear immature, uncivil, ignorant, and lots of other adjectives -- and this will drive older voters AWAY in large numbers. Insulting the entire country (as Mr. Moore repeatedly does) is another sure-fire way to make the whole country hate you right back. So go on, continue to tell me that Bush fucks the heads off of small children beneath an altar depicting Hitler while Cheney strangles kittens, because the Americans are the stupidest people on earth for daring to not vote the way that the Beastie Boys told us to. Pretty soon you'll have me convinced to vote for the Republicans too. Seriously, the "loudmouth left" needs to start doing some soul-searching right about now. Four more years of "fuck bush" rhetoric will only ensure further Republican victories in 2006 and 2008. Ignore this message from a moderate swing-voter in a battleground state at your own peril. . . [/rant off]
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Nov 04, 2004, 03:22
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See my comments above "get over your sorry asses." Who lost the election? The "Howler-Monkey Wing" of the Democratic party, led by Michael Moore & Howard Dean. Jumping up and down, screeching and flinging poo will never change anybody's mind. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Etc. Another thing that never ceases to amaze me: the way the left repeats the mantra that Bush is "dumb" -- he's obviously far more clever than you guys when it comes to electoral politics. He obviously understands the American people better than you too. Keep repeating that Bush is dumb, Americans are dumb, dumb dumb diddy dumb . . . everybody who doesn't agree with me is super-moronic-dumb. That's always such an effective argumentation tactic, isn't it? I mean I can't tell you the number of times someone has changed my opinion merely by yelling at me and calling me a stupid moron . . . First rule of war: NEVER underestimate your enemy.
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PMM 3155 posts |
Nov 04, 2004, 03:47
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I tend to agree with you on that one, Dog, though I do feel the need to get it off my chest, and do so here, where only like minded people will suffer it. I also have watched the war of words unfold on countless discussion boards, and time after time it just degenerates into personalised flame wars and empty slogans. In fairness to the right, they are equally capable and willing to play that particular game. Why should immature lefties have all the fun?
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Dog 3000 4611 posts |
Nov 04, 2004, 06:29
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The thing is, up until recently the howler-monkey phenomenon was far more a disease of the right. Sometime around the 2000 Florida "controversy", this meme got started on the left that they needed an "answer to Rush Limbaugh." So nowadays the media scene is dominated by the likes of Michael Moore & Janine Garofalo, doing their best to be as obnoxious and partisan as those they revile. Should I also mention that you will NEVER see Rush Limbaugh walking around the floor of a republican convention talking trash about the opposing party in front of media cameras? Because the respublicans are smarter than that. Meanwhile Michael Moore was on the floor of the dem convention this summer, eager to put his fat face in front of every camera and go off on one of his anti-Bush rants. All the while claiming that he and his movie (in theatres now kids!) were objective and non-partisan. "Just bringing you the truth so you can make the correct decision." No one bought that load of crap. By the end of the campaign, Moore was openly campaigning for Kerry (I figure that's 1 million votes for Bush right there.) To a dedicated non-partisan like me, the whole thing is just SOOOO fucking ponderous . . . if all you can do is yell "fuck bush, americans are stupid!" at me I'm gonna a) assume you can't put together an argument any more coherent & rational than a stream of expletives, and therefore b) conclude you are a lightweight and I should just ignore you. And it don't matter to me if your bullshit is copped from Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore . . . Just like Bin Laden intervened at the last minute to *HELP* his alleged "enemy" win re-election, and the way Sharon & Arafat are sworn enemies but secretly allies who need each other to stay in power ("Castro vs. American sanctions" is another example) . . .
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