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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 17:58
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[/quote] Apart from a few notable exceptions, i'm beginning to think, *as far as monument orientations are concerned*, there isn't much to support the idea that neolithic people were concerned with what was going on in the sky, or what time of year it was! Fair?[/quote] The exceptions , i.e. the classic major monument examples , alone should be enough to alert us to an interest . There is the regional variation whereby some areas, at some point , choose a "quarter " to orient their monuments towards ,and this can change over time in the same area . Little doubt that the solstices ,equinoxes , standstills , notches on hills etc are particularly favoured .What is clear though is that the vast majority face the part of the sky where the sun or moon will be seen sometime in the year . Admittedly that is a large percentage of the horizon , but the remaining percentage is much bigger than the tiny percentage of monuments that don't face the sun or moon . This applies to anywhere where we have good data , Britain ,Europe , Near East ,North Africa. There is also a significant percentage that face roughly east i.e. 60 - 120 degrees .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 18:09
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tjj wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Apart from a few notable exceptions, i'm beginning to think, *as far as monument orientations are concerned*, there isn't much to support the idea that neolithic people were concerned with what was going on in the sky, or what time of year it was! Fair? I wouldn't agree that they weren't concerned about what time of year it was - these 'pagan festivals' all pre-date Christianity otherwise we wouldn't have Christmas or Johnmas (as it is known on Orkney) i.e. midsummer. No written evidence that I'm not talking imbolics of course. Sun and moon , and sometimes stars is all we had to know where we were in the cycle , or even get about , they work really well .
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 18:14
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tiompan wrote: The exceptions , i.e. the classic major monument examples , alone should be enough to alert us to an interest . Which is why the impending damage to the most famous deliberate alignment of them all ought to be a matter of widespread anger. (Sorry to be a bore but it's pretty relevant in any talk about alignments amongst alignment enthusiasts).
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thesweetcheat 6219 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 18:21
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We definitely have less wells on here than we did, I guess some got expunged for dubiousness. If Rhiannon has folklore and you have pics, the case for the defence should be strong :)
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 18:25
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nigelswift wrote: tiompan wrote: The exceptions , i.e. the classic major monument examples , alone should be enough to alert us to an interest . Which is why the impending damage to the most famous deliberate alignment of them all ought to be a matter of widespread anger. (Sorry to be a bore but it's pretty relevant in any talk about alignments amongst alignment enthusiasts). True .
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 18:40
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oh yes do bring on the wells :)
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Edited Feb 01, 2017, 19:45
Feb 01, 2017, 19:44
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tiompan wrote: The exceptions , i.e. the classic major monument examples , alone should be enough to alert us to an interest An interest most definitely, a preoccupation with or major reason to build, i'd say is questionable. tiompan wrote: There is the regional variation whereby some areas, at some point , choose a "quarter " to orient their monuments towards ,and this can change over time in the same area . How do we know that had anything to do with the sky? tiompan wrote: What is clear though is that the vast majority face the part of the sky where the sun or moon will be seen sometime in the year . Admittedly that is a large percentage of the horizon , but the remaining percentage is much bigger than the tiny percentage of monuments that don't face the sun or moon . But why such vagueness when we know they can get it* spot on when desired? *are we to blame in deciding what is significant? tiompan wrote: There is also a significant percentage that face roughly east i.e. 60 - 120 degrees . [/quote] What does that indicate in terms of the sky?
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Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 19:55
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tiompan wrote: tjj wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Apart from a few notable exceptions, i'm beginning to think, *as far as monument orientations are concerned*, there isn't much to support the idea that neolithic people were concerned with what was going on in the sky, or what time of year it was! Fair? I wouldn't agree that they weren't concerned about what time of year it was - these 'pagan festivals' all pre-date Christianity otherwise we wouldn't have Christmas or Johnmas (as it is known on Orkney) i.e. midsummer. No written evidence that I'm not talking imbolics of course. Sun and moon , and sometimes stars is all we had to know where we were in the cycle , or even get about , they work really well . Indeed but i'm not sure we should assume 'the cycle' was a part of their monument building. Still 'of the sky' of course, but perhaps some monuments were orientated to the position of the sun on the morning after an individual died, or some other event significant to the community.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 20:04
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: The exceptions , i.e. the classic major monument examples , alone should be enough to alert us to an interest An interest most definitely, a preoccupation with or major reason to build, i'd say no. tiompan wrote: There is the regional variation whereby some areas, at some point , choose a "quarter " to orient their monuments towards ,and this can change over time in the same area . How do we know that had anything to do with the sky? tiompan wrote: What is clear though is that the vast majority face the part of the sky where the sun or moon will be seen sometime in the year . Admittedly that is a large percentage of the horizon , but the remaining percentage is much bigger than the tiny percentage of monuments that don't face the sun or moon . But why such vagueness when we know they can get it* spot on when desired? *are we to blame in deciding what is significant? tiompan wrote: There is also a significant percentage that face roughly east i.e. 60 - 120 degrees . What does that indicate in terms of the sky?[/quote] Not sure how to deal with the visual aspect (of the text ) . I agree about astronomy being far from primary or reason to build . I doubt "observation " came into either for that matter . We don't know for sure that the regional orientations had anything to do with astronomy . But there is a clue that suggests it is . When we look at all the regions, as there is the common denominator ,i.e.the vast majority face the part of the sky where the sun , in particular , can be seen at some point in the year . We can show that it wasn't related to the landscape or the horizon , peaks /troughs etc as within the same groupings the horizon can be quite different .It has always puzzled me how the direction of orientation can be maintained when the horizon and heavenly bodies will look different from monument to monument , yet the bearing will be the same . Any thoughts ? My guess is that the vagueness is not inability , it's just not what matters and it probably is us wanting to wrap it up all up simply with the aligning to astro events, and when they don't, i.e. in the vast majority of cases just ignore it or think they somehow got it wrong . I didn't understand "What does that indicate in terms of the sky?"
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Feb 01, 2017, 20:14
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: tiompan wrote: tjj wrote: Evergreen Dazed wrote: Apart from a few notable exceptions, i'm beginning to think, *as far as monument orientations are concerned*, there isn't much to support the idea that neolithic people were concerned with what was going on in the sky, or what time of year it was! Fair? I wouldn't agree that they weren't concerned about what time of year it was - these 'pagan festivals' all pre-date Christianity otherwise we wouldn't have Christmas or Johnmas (as it is known on Orkney) i.e. midsummer. No written evidence that I'm not talking imbolics of course. Sun and moon , and sometimes stars is all we had to know where we were in the cycle , or even get about , they work really well . Indeed but i'm not sure we should assume 'the cycle' was a part of their monument building. Still 'of the sky' of course, but perhaps some monuments were orientated to the position of the sun on the morning after an individual died, or some other event significant to the community. I agree to an extent , but aligning a building to an event that is also culturally/cosmologically important would provide another level of importance for the building ,bigger juju . It has often been suggested ,but so many ,I have posted quite a few don't face a part of the horizon where the sun or moon will be seen to rise ,i.e. they are already well up above the horizon .Then there is the problem of regional variation where groups share a relatively narrow band of orientation , did everyone die around the same date ?
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