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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » How is Rock Art aged? |
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:38
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thesweetcheat wrote: bladup wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: I wasn't talking about mushrooms though (I wouldn't even begin to try and tell an expert such as you anything about that), I was talking about possible reasons why people decorate things. Yes my answer was it's deep rooted into our brains because our ancesters tripped so much. Or not. You have your theory, I don't have to accept it. What do you think the ancesters did before beer and mead?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:39
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bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Sanctuary wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Lots of these patterns (particularly spirals, zig zags and chevrons) appear in the edges of message pads when people doodle while on the phone/in meetings. I'm not sure that most of the people are taking hallucinogens at work (I could be wrong), so isn't an equally plausible explanation that these are the sort of patterns people make when decorating things? Hell of a doodle in stone eh. Can you imagine the phone bill for a three week call :-) Ha, a lot of stone tools could have been sharpened in the process of making the rock art as well, these people did like killing two birds with one stone [3 or 4 if they could], making art and at the same time stone tools sounds good to me. The creation of rock art tends to result in the dulling of points not sharpening . Rubbing tools [and various other tools] need dulling before use and rock art is made in various ways, as you well know. You mentioned sharpening . What gets found at rock art sites in those few cases where they have been excavated is lots of smashed quartz and possible hammer stones .Nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone but it doesn't seem that likely from from what we have found at these rock art sites that have been excavated
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:44
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Sanctuary wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Lots of these patterns (particularly spirals, zig zags and chevrons) appear in the edges of message pads when people doodle while on the phone/in meetings. I'm not sure that most of the people are taking hallucinogens at work (I could be wrong), so isn't an equally plausible explanation that these are the sort of patterns people make when decorating things? Hell of a doodle in stone eh. Can you imagine the phone bill for a three week call :-) Ha, a lot of stone tools could have been sharpened in the process of making the rock art as well, these people did like killing two birds with one stone [3 or 4 if they could], making art and at the same time stone tools sounds good to me. The creation of rock art tends to result in the dulling of points not sharpening . Rubbing tools [and various other tools] need dulling before use and rock art is made in various ways, as you well know. You mentioned sharpening . What gets found at rock art sites in those few cases where they have been excavated is lots of smashed quartz and possible hammer stones .Nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone but it doesn't seem that likely from from what we have found at these rock art sites that have been excavated some tools would have clearly been made in the process, of course they would, it makes the time spent doing the art more worthwhile and is just common sense.
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thesweetcheat 6218 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:44
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It doesn't really matter what they did and at the moment it's largely speculative, unless you know of any finds or research to back up the assertion that prehistoric people spent all their time tripping. Either way it doesn't prove that rock art motifs were a result of use of hallucinogens. As various people have said in this thread, there are other explanations which have to be considered as equally plausible.
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Harryshill 510 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:45
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Really it's not.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:46
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bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: How does offering an alternative explanation to use of hallucinogens make me "clearly out of my depth"? Not sure that it's possible to have any kind of discussion unless other explanations are considered as being as equally (or more) plausible as your own theory. Or is your conclusion that every human activity involving applying patterns to a surface can only be a result of use of hallucinogens? The days of a drugs as an explanation for rock art in Britain and particularly Ireland were in early 90 's , it has had it's day and evry if any few researchers accept it these days ,for obvious reasons . They knew in the early 90's because nearly everyone my age was off there heads, that's why they knew then, ending up at these places in those states, the places make the most sense then, i was at castlerigg once when half a rave turned up, even cope used to jokenly call Avebury - Ravebury. you should learn your drug use history . There was a period in the late 60's and early 70's too , before things went belly up . It was academics who suggested the idea and was lapped up by the punters as is the norm with all punters ,they like to to believe their heroes , in this case "the ancients/ancestors " may have had similar experiences or behaved like them , evidence rarely enters into it .
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:46
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thesweetcheat wrote: It doesn't really matter what they did and at the moment it's largely speculative, unless you know of any finds or research to back up the assertion that prehistoric people spent all their time tripping. Either way it doesn't prove that rock art motifs were a result of use of hallucinogens. As various people have said in this thread, there are other explanations which have to be considered as equally plausible. What?
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:47
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bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Sanctuary wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Lots of these patterns (particularly spirals, zig zags and chevrons) appear in the edges of message pads when people doodle while on the phone/in meetings. I'm not sure that most of the people are taking hallucinogens at work (I could be wrong), so isn't an equally plausible explanation that these are the sort of patterns people make when decorating things? Hell of a doodle in stone eh. Can you imagine the phone bill for a three week call :-) Ha, a lot of stone tools could have been sharpened in the process of making the rock art as well, these people did like killing two birds with one stone [3 or 4 if they could], making art and at the same time stone tools sounds good to me. The creation of rock art tends to result in the dulling of points not sharpening . Rubbing tools [and various other tools] need dulling before use and rock art is made in various ways, as you well know. You mentioned sharpening . What gets found at rock art sites in those few cases where they have been excavated is lots of smashed quartz and possible hammer stones .Nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone but it doesn't seem that likely from from what we have found at these rock art sites that have been excavated some tools would have clearly been made in the process, of course they would, it makes the time spent doing the art more worthwhile and is just common sense. Maybe the tools used were seen as "holy ". Seriously ,where are these tools ? We have found the discarded tools that did some of the engraving .
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:48
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: How does offering an alternative explanation to use of hallucinogens make me "clearly out of my depth"? Not sure that it's possible to have any kind of discussion unless other explanations are considered as being as equally (or more) plausible as your own theory. Or is your conclusion that every human activity involving applying patterns to a surface can only be a result of use of hallucinogens? The days of a drugs as an explanation for rock art in Britain and particularly Ireland were in early 90 's , it has had it's day and evry if any few researchers accept it these days ,for obvious reasons . They knew in the early 90's because nearly everyone my age was off there heads, that's why they knew then, ending up at these places in those states, the places make the most sense then, i was at castlerigg once when half a rave turned up, even cope used to jokenly call Avebury - Ravebury. you should learn your drug use history . There was a period in the late 60's and early 70's too , before things went belly up . It was academics who suggested the idea and was lapped up by the punters as is the norm with all punters ,they like to to believe their heroes , in this case "the ancients/ancestors " may have had similar experiences or behaved like them , evidence rarely enters into it . Oh i know, they understood more in the 60's as well what with all that trippin.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Dec 17, 2012, 20:50
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tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: tiompan wrote: bladup wrote: Sanctuary wrote: thesweetcheat wrote: Lots of these patterns (particularly spirals, zig zags and chevrons) appear in the edges of message pads when people doodle while on the phone/in meetings. I'm not sure that most of the people are taking hallucinogens at work (I could be wrong), so isn't an equally plausible explanation that these are the sort of patterns people make when decorating things? Hell of a doodle in stone eh. Can you imagine the phone bill for a three week call :-) Ha, a lot of stone tools could have been sharpened in the process of making the rock art as well, these people did like killing two birds with one stone [3 or 4 if they could], making art and at the same time stone tools sounds good to me. The creation of rock art tends to result in the dulling of points not sharpening . Rubbing tools [and various other tools] need dulling before use and rock art is made in various ways, as you well know. You mentioned sharpening . What gets found at rock art sites in those few cases where they have been excavated is lots of smashed quartz and possible hammer stones .Nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone but it doesn't seem that likely from from what we have found at these rock art sites that have been excavated some tools would have clearly been made in the process, of course they would, it makes the time spent doing the art more worthwhile and is just common sense. Maybe the tools used were seen as "holy ". Seriously ,where are these tools ? We have found the discarded tools that did some of the engraving . "We have found the discarded tools that did some of the engraving" there of course.
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