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riverman 845 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 16:50
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GLADMAN wrote: For balance.... I'm passionate about this planet, too. But I find the self-righteous, naive hectoring of pathetic little girls like Greta Thunberg so detrimental to the cause. Who the hell does she think she is to lecture me? By what right? Little school girls and people who can afford to take days off and block streets are irrelevent to this problem. Crikey, didn't expect to find Toby Young on the HH forum. Extinction Rebellion was launched last October with support from many eminent professors. Sadly I'm a journeyman academic so wasn't contacted in that regard. But anyway happy to offer some balanced info and links (below) on the campaign so far. Yours, Dr Riverman (BSc MSc PhD, Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, Fellow of the Higher Education Academy, and newly appointed CCC (Climate Change Clown). Here's a balanced overview of the questions raised by the last couple of week's events from the editor of Business Green: https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/blog-post/3074582/rebel-alliance And here's the CBI's response to XR, again as reported by the Business Green editor (by the way he is one the leading authorities on low carbon economies and how to get there): " "As protests in recent days and weeks have shown, climate change is an issue of truly unprecedented proportions facing every nation on earth," James Diggle, CBI head of energy and climate change, told BusinessGreen in an emailed statement. "Put simply, the world needs to get a grip on it. It requires real solutions from the government and business - as well as changes to the way each of us lives our lives - right now." He added that the UK had a critical role to play in driving deep decarbonisation at a global scale. "As the country that first harnessed the power of hydrocarbons to drive the industrial revolution, the UK has a unique responsibility - and opportunity - to lead again," he said. "The first step to doing this is to be even bolder in our climate ambitions." Like most business groups, including the new coalition of green business leaders that wrote to The Times this weekend in support of XR, the CBI has some reservations about the short terms costs for businesses caused by disruption from the XR protests. But there is also an understanding of the long term benefits that would result if public engagement with climate risks helped to drive bolder decarbonisation policies and avert escalating climate impacts for economies around the world. " Business Green
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Amil04 447 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2019, 18:08
Apr 28, 2019, 17:27
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“Eminent professors” Where are they? Are they on the news all the time talking the science? No. It’s all geared to create an emotional response not a critical thinking one. It is not balanced information you’re supplying because it doesn’t give any voice to people who have a different view on the matter. Or are you implying their views are unbalanced or that they themselves are ‘unbalanced’? Business Green..yeah right. Globalists/Capitalists wearing green masks more like. Do you think that the ‘naked’ protest wasn’t sanctioned by the ‘state’? I hope they all went through security? I thought things had been tightened up after that other fake purple paint throwing jest...protest. In fact I thought after that incident the public weren’t allowed up there anymore? (Or did they just put a glass barrier up?) Extinction Rebellion is a tool of the state/globalists. The public must be seen to be demanding the new measures which will be put in force. (which in a nutshell is going to making those who can’t afford to pay now..pay more..whilst the rich get richer) They work hand in hand behind the scenes. They’re like two comedians feeding each other lines. We all know that any genuine ‘protest’ group or action group is soon infiltrated by security services..or if not they’re actually set up by them in the first place..Combat 18, Occupy..etc. We’ve all heard in the press that people have started families with these people only for it to be revealed years later they were a ‘spook’. Sorta puts you off getting too friendly with your fellow protesters doesn’t it? "There are many thousands of scientists who reject man-made global warming fears . . . It’s all based on computer models and predictions. We do not actually have a crystal ball, it is a mythical object . . . The fears are promoted by a powerful convergent of interests, scientists seeking grant money, media seeking headlines, universities seeking huge grants from major institutions, foundations, environmental groups, politicians wanting to make it look like they are saving future generations. And all of these people have converged on this issue.”—Dr. Patrick Moore, former Greenpeace activist, while appearing on the Fox Business Network with Stuart Varney, 2011. Random quote picked off the net..
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Amil04 447 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2019, 18:33
Apr 28, 2019, 18:17
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..another quote ‘picked off the net..’ “The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.“ – Club of Rome, premier environmental think-tank, consultants to the United Nations “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?” – Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme (UNEP) What sort of nonsense is this? ‘We came up with the idea’. What??? Aye...and then you cherry picked (at best) the science to fit your ‘idea’ Shouldn’t the science come first? Which at that time of course was warning of an impending mini ice age - or certainly not long after. https://climatism.blog/2014/01/24/in-searching-for-a-new-enemy-to-unite-us-we-came-up-with-the-threat-of-global-warming/
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GLADMAN 950 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 18:28
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To clarify....although I thought my posts were clear enough. My apologies: My issue is not with the aim of reducing emissions - why on Earth would it be? - but the manner in which these protests have been undertaken, which I feel have antagonised, even alienated potential supporters. Naturally I can only relate my perception of how the disruption has been received from my own experience. I define people by the manner in which they act... nothing else. So if you wish to classify yourself as a climate clown I can not comment either way since I have never met you. However, when people encountered upon the street seriously inconveniencing others can not even explain their aims - beyond "I'm having fun being a rebel, mate" - I would suggest it is not surprising there is confusion as to just what you are attempting to achieve. Thank you for the link. I shall read with interest, particularly in respect of just how we are going to obtain that global consensus. Suggesting the UK has major influence, to my mind, is fanciful to say the least.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 18:37
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Amil04 wrote: "There are many thousands of scientists who reject man-made global warming fears . . . It’s all based on computer models and predictions. We do not actually have a crystal ball, it is a mythical object . . . The fears are promoted by a powerful convergent of interests, scientists seeking grant money, media seeking headlines, universities seeking huge grants from major institutions, foundations, environmental groups, politicians wanting to make it look like they are saving future generations. And all of these people have converged on this issue.”—Dr. Patrick Moore, former Greenpeace activist, while appearing on the Fox Business Network with Stuart Varney, 2011. Random quote picked off the net. Oh FFS. Fox News in 2011. I'm with June who seems to have the advantage of good sense and Riverman for having academic authority and both of them for not having an obvious axe to grind, especially a knee-jerk obsessive need to see conspiracies in every damn thing.
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Amil04 447 posts |
Edited Apr 28, 2019, 18:43
Apr 28, 2019, 18:39
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I think that’s right...it’s alienated a lot of people..ie the older generations who might be more critical in their thinking. Remember this is all about future generations..not us lot who are still here. They don’t want us/them to be part of it? Thus their approach was calculated to have that effect? The young are being used as the thin end of the wedge in this..they will soon be older and another younger generation will slip right into their mindsets as the norm. I know there’s a few older people dotted about to give the younger ones some kudos. Note ‘old man’ sitting next to Greta on stage during her speech.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 18:50
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"The young are being used as the thin end of the wedge in this.." Have you the least evidence for that claim or is it just from yet another survivalist/conspiracist website? I'm the older generation and I don't resent young people for saying it's their futures that are at stake, they're right, and to say they're being manipulated by shadowy forces sounds knowing and clever but doesn't really hold up to a second's scrutiny except by another conspiracist. Please give young people the unpolluted right to roar about what they, not we, are facing.
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riverman 845 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 19:06
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Amil04 wrote: "There are many thousands of scientists who reject man-made global warming fears . . . It’s all based on computer models and predictions. We do not actually have a crystal ball, it is a mythical object . . . The fears are promoted by a powerful convergent of interests, scientists seeking grant money, media seeking headlines, universities seeking huge grants from major institutions, foundations, environmental groups, politicians wanting to make it look like they are saving future generations. And all of these people have converged on this issue.”—Dr. Patrick Moore, former Greenpeace activist, while appearing on the Fox Business Network with Stuart Varney, 2011. The last figure I saw was 98% of scientists agree humans are causing global warming. It is not all models actually - the IPCC reports use the decades of observational data we have including tons of satellite data over the last 40+ years. I agree there are uncertainties in model predictions, as demonstrated by the fact changes are starting to happen faster than scientists have predicted using models. A worrying development in recent years for example is the influence of Arctic warming on the position of the polar jet which is causing the wild extremes of major cold snaps and snowfall e.g. the beast from the east last year, USA this year, plus anomalously warm spells e.g. this year Greenland ice sheet has started melting early April for the first time on record; Alaskan ice is melting early etc. It's looking like Arctic warming is causing this but it hasn't yet been verified. At the end of the day these computer models are powerful tools that allow us to predict what will happen in terms of increased rainfall, higher sea levels, droughts etc. It would be crazy not to plan ahead with all this information. As for vested interests, funding etc - it is well known billionaires such as the Koch brothers fund 'think tanks' promoting climate change denial etc. With regards the Business Green article the balance is precisely because it is a capitalist view on XR i.e. not XR, nor left-wing press etc. And he presents views he doesn't agree with - that's balance in my book.
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Amil04 447 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 19:13
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evidence...only in so far that it’s the young who are being recruited..? I don’t personally have any evidence and can only point to people/sources that say they have. Such as the link to the discussion I started this thread with. The trouble is each ‘side’ has already made up its mind and will not listen to something for two hours that they know will be ‘incorrect’. So what does that tell us? It’s the same for so many issues. One might even consider it’s been designed that way... Survivalist? Haha! What a picture you paint! Ooh!...these new camo pants are a bit tight..!
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riverman 845 posts |
Apr 28, 2019, 19:13
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Thanks for the clarification and good to hear. The language I was more annoyed by was the words used to describe Greta - a young campaigner inspired by a serious issue and having an effect (globally) is pretty inspiring. The school strikes are fantastic... we should be applauding these young people in my view.
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