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U-Know! Forum » Trump. Vaguely cheering news. |
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 11:37
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I have no idea who she is. My post was largely highlighting the indisputably hilarious caricature of the ridiculously inept president in balloon form, and the celebration of peaceful protest and free speech in such a ludicrous yet lovable form. G x
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 11:55
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Cannot and will not give any support to lying Nazis and Fascists. He's achieved nothing apart from breeding hate and ignorance on an almost global level. Those who support him seriously need to check their moral compass!
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phallus dei 583 posts |
Edited Jul 16, 2018, 13:35
Jul 16, 2018, 13:31
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Captain Starlet wrote: Cannot and will not give any support to lying Nazis and Fascists. He's achieved nothing apart from breeding hate and ignorance on an almost global level. Those who support him seriously need to check their moral compass! Labeling Trump and his supporters "Nazis and Fascists" is about as accurate as when rightists call Obama and his supporters "communist." It would behoove both sides to exhibit some common sense and refrain from hysterics. Perhaps we should all read a few more books on political theory? And perhaps also learn to distinguish rhetoric from results? I've already listed some of Trump's accomplishments. It's hard to see how easing tensions with North Korea, trying to mend ties with Russia, winding down US involvement in Syria, and weakening neoliberalism overall is "breeding hate and ignorance." Unless one is criticizing Trump from an anarchist position ("All politicians are shit, and Trump is just as bad as the rest"), it's ideologically inconsistent to oppose war and imperialism and not recognize that - based on results - Trump is doing a better job at challenging the Empire than any other major Western politician in memory. I agree that we should all check our moral compass. We must repeatedly question our biases and be on guard least our "leaders" deceive us. Only through such sustained critique can we ever hope to arrive at The Truth.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 13:56
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Captain Starlet wrote: Cannot and will not give any support to lying Nazis and Fascists. He's achieved nothing apart from breeding hate and ignorance on an almost global level. Those who support him seriously need to check their moral compass! As President Trump would probably say himself being refreshingly straight to the point - WHAT COMPLETE BOLLOCKS!
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thesweetcheat 6216 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 18:36
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For balance then: championing of fossil fuels over renewable sources, withdrawing from international agreements on climate change, public support for climate change deniers, continuing support for the NRA, children in internment camps, blanket ban on travel from Muslim states with no record of terrorist attacks on the US, endorsement of Israel militarism and the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem, public attacks on the judiciary, passing legislation that reduces women's rights to chose what to do with their own bodies.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 22:08
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yes and don't forget this, where he didn't take the opportunity to condemn the neo nazis and similar at their revolting rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally#President_Trump's_statements (because he knows doesn't he, that the far right are his natural voters, and so the violence and murder were the fault of 'many sides')
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 22:13
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He specifically said there were 'very fine people' in that 'unite the right' rally - how do you explain that, Sanctuary, unless he's supporting Nazis and Fascists?
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 22:46
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When you see people spout rhetoric akin to Hitler they're Nazis. When you see people doing nazi salutes, they're Nazis. When you see people adopt the same ideologies of hate, racism and ignorance, they're nazis. Stop pretending its not happening, that's how it happened the last time!
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Captain Starlet 1110 posts |
Jul 16, 2018, 23:38
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Something you've been very adept at talking as of late! I've no time for Nazi appeasers either, but it's your choice to ignore what's happening what's in front of you.
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phallus dei 583 posts |
Edited Jul 18, 2018, 01:45
Jul 17, 2018, 02:06
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Yes, there is plenty to criticize Trump about. For what it's worth, here are my views on the issues you pointed out. 1. "championing of fossil fuels over renewable sources, withdrawing from international agreements on climate change, public support for climate change deniers" - Mostly agree, though think we also have to realize that, despite previous global efforts at reducing climate change, little progress has been made. Personally, I don't know the science well enough to deduce if 4-8 years of Trump (less if he assassinated by the state a la JFK) will significantly add to the overall environmental damage thus far. We may already be past the point of no return on this issue. 2. "continuing support for the NRA"- the right to bear arms is part of the American constitution. Americans have had guns from the beginning. School shootings, on the other hand, haven't been a fact of life since the late 1990s. Clearly, the underlying problem isn't guns, but something else - social media, unemployment, alienation, moral rot, etc. Blaming the NRA achieves nothing, and when one considers that there are already more guns in circulation in the US than people, the possibility of getting them all off the streets becomes impossible. Rather than focusing on "feel-good but achieve nothing" approaches, Americans should begin a sustained cultural critique into the root of the problem. 3. "Children in internment camps" - This policy was also done under Obama, maybe before that, too? But it only became a topic of criticism under Trump (suggesting again that most of Trump's critics aren't ideologically consistent). Perhaps this policy should be changed? What are the logistics involved in detaining illegal immigrants before sending them back? Like most people, I hope that this be done in the most humane process possible. An honest debate about the issue, and the role of immigration in general, would be welcomed. 4."Blanket ban on travel from Muslim states with no record of terrorist attacks on the US" - My understanding is that only Syrian refugees are banned indefinitely, while those from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, and Sudan are subject to greater scrutiny. Considering that all of those countries either have been, or currently are, targeted for destabilization by America, there is indeed a bit of irony that the US is now placing limits on refugees. It would be great if the so-called "Muslim ban" could provoke a wider debate about the aggressive role of American imperialism, but alas, it usually just gets simplified as "Trump hates Muslims." Which obviously isn't the case, given that many other Muslim-majority countries aren't subject to such a policy. 5."endorsement of Israel militarism and the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem" - 100% with you here! 6. "public attacks on the judiciary" - Both Democrats and Republicans criticize judges they don't like. Antonin Scalia, conservative judges in the South, are/were often condemned by the Democratic "left." Obama criticized the Supreme Court in his 2010 State of the Union address. Republicans collectively lambast Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Trump isn't doing anything new here. 7. "passing legislation that reduces women's rights to chose what to do with their own bodies" - Has he passed any new legislation in this regard? I honestly don't know. Abortion has been contested in America for as long as I remember. There are so many people on each side of the spectrum that I don't see any major change as possible. Roe v Wade is not in danger of being abolished; doing so would likely start a civil war. Perhaps the government may reduce funding for Planned Parenthood, but it is a very popular organization, and will no doubt be able to pick up funding elsewhere. 8. I'd like to add a few more points of criticism against Trump, which you omitted - continued support for destabilizing policies in Venezuela, and now doing the same in Nicaragua. Not pardoning Edward Snowden; not coming out in support for Julian Assange (the greatest freedom fighter of our age). Supporting Saudi Arabia in its horrific attacks against Yemen. Pulling out of the treaty with Iran. Every leader is worthy of criticism. They will all repeatedly fall short of our expectations. Ultimately, all we can do is pick the "least bad" among a series of underwhelming choices. For me, reducing the threats of IMMEDIATE global extinction via war with Russia, and avoiding a massive regional catastrophe via another Korean war (which, at a minimum, would take out all of Korea and most of Northeast China) is more than enough to support Trump. Add to that Trump's pro-working class policies and the destabilizing effect he brings to the neoliberal order, and he becomes even better. Perhaps when that order finally collapses, real progress can be made on the other issues you address.
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