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Rhiannon
5291 posts

Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 06, 2018, 20:48
He probably won't notice. But it might be vaguely cheering to those who do spot it next week. I wonder who will actually be pleased to see him here? Politicians are probably going to be polite. American ex-pats probably left for a reason. And nobody else, surely, wants to see or hear him over here? Perhaps I underestimate the pull of celebrity.
http://theantimedia.com/trump-baby-blimp-fly-over-london/
nigelswift
8112 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 06, 2018, 21:04
Rhiannon wrote:
Perhaps I underestimate the pull of celebrity.


Well, I've been blaggarded on this very organ for failing to give him the respect he is owed.

(I leave you to guess by whom!)
phallus dei
583 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 07, 2018, 01:23
There has indeed been a lot to cheer about regarding the Trump presidency - the North Korean summit, the upcoming meeting with Putin, pulling out of the TPP, weakening the hegemonic power of the G7, ending support for terrorists in Syria, continuing to call out the lying corporate media, etc, etc.

Theirry Meysssan at Voltaire net has a good article judging Trump from such an anti-imperialistic perspective. I encourage all progressives to read it:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article201778.html

No doubt, many Britons will be happy with Trump's coming visit. One pub has even decided to change its name in his honor:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-pub-turning-trump-arms-145917283.html
moss
moss
2897 posts

Edited Jul 07, 2018, 08:49
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 07, 2018, 08:38
Rhiannon wrote:
He probably won't notice. But it might be vaguely cheering to those who do spot it next week. I wonder who will actually be pleased to see him here? Politicians are probably going to be polite. American ex-pats probably left for a reason. And nobody else, surely, wants to see or hear him over here? Perhaps I underestimate the pull of celebrity.
http://theantimedia.com/trump-baby-blimp-fly-over-london/


I love political humour and this 'baby' definitely needs lampooning but sadly does not offer a solution to the fact that we are entering 'the Age of Tyrants'. That was a scary read Phallus-dei.

Forgot this.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-44714939
Rhiannon
5291 posts

Edited Jul 07, 2018, 11:07
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 07, 2018, 10:54
Those are very interesting links with food for thought. It makes a change to see that perspective presented thoughtfully without flecks of spit.

My initial thought though is, yes he is perhaps a different sort of president to the previous recent republican presidents. But is his strategy of withdrawing from all these international agreements, and threatening to put a big wall up against Mexico etc, and altering trade tariffs and so on - all the 'America First' stuff, is it because he's a canny politician and thought it all through carefully, or is it because he's basically a egotistical businessman with no previous thought about the rest of the world, who tweets inflammatory comments to the leader of North Korea, because he's a moron? This is the question. Does he really care about the poor white people of America and their 'American Dream'? I really doubt it.

In the article - it's all very well carefully analysing Trump's moves, as though in retrospect they are part of a carefully constructed Plan, but can we not judge from his habit of firing off tweets in the middle of the night, that he's not the sort of character to be carefully weighing up the effects of his actions? I would imagine the writer of the article putting more time into what they wrote than the time it took the impulsive Trump to decide on his latest trade decision. We don't want an impulsive sociopath with their finger on the nuclear button.

The writer says ' Donald Trump is preparing a reorganisation of international relations.' Even if he is, I can't believe his motives behind this outcome would have the interests of the world in mind. So however clever and thoughtful and canny Trump might or might not be, he's not really adding to the benefit of mankind with his actions - he's an egotist, which is how he's got to where he is. And probably Trump and Putin will get along a little too well, they both enjoy destabilising the world. I'm not sure there is much to cheer really.

I thought the story about the landlord wanting to politely welcome the leader of our long-time friend America was naively sweet and well-mannered, his old mum would be proud (or actually I hope she'd hit him with a rolling pin for being such a wally). Also, all publicity is good publicity of course :)
goffik
goffik
3926 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 07, 2018, 10:58
I'll have a look at those links later, but hope you're joking about him calling out the lying media. :D

He's a dreadful, hateful man. I'm pretty sure even his supporters can see this but are just turning a blind eye to all the awful shit.

G x
phallus dei
583 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 08, 2018, 14:25
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It’s getting rare these days to have genuine debates, instead of two sides screaming at each other, both refusing to listen.

I agree that it can be hard to discern how much of Trump's actions are planned out, and how much are spur-of-the-moment outbursts. The image of rash late-night tweets is hard to shake. But the fact that he has managed to survive politically thus far, and make a few real accomplishments to boot, suggests that there is a "method to his madness." If Trump was the idiot he is made out to be, wouldn't he have been neutralized by now? How many times have the “experts” told us, "this is the end of Trump"? And yet?

Another question is if Trump means what he says. He's clearly an egotist, but which politician isn't? Aside from a Gandhi or Che Guevara, most leaders are motivated in part by self-interest. Perhaps Trump tapped into genuine public discontent, but just manipulated that discontent to satisfy his ego to become president. But if so, why would Trump maintain such a confrontational stance AFTER becoming president? For the sake of protecting his "legacy," wouldn’t it make more sense to act according to politics as usual? After all, that is what Obama did, promising a drastic change in direction but instead expanding American imperialism and getting a Noble Peace Prize in the process. Trump could have negated his campaign rhetoric once in office, played according to the “rules,” and the media would have loved him for it. (Recall that the only time the American media referred to Trump as “presidential” was when he was bombing Syria). The fact that Trump isn’t doing this – and gets continuously attacked in the process - suggests that he is sincere in his beliefs. Part of what makes him so refreshing as a politician is that he's actually speaking his mind.

Ultimately, though, what Trump believes is less important than the consequences of his actions. And his actions are for the benefit of humanity. The neoliberal paradigm – crystalized by the Thatcher / Reagan / Kohl axis of evil and continued by every “respectable” Western politician afterward – has brought the planet to ruin. Nations have been erased; cultures destroyed, classes decimated. But now, out of the "chaos" that Trump is creating –wittingly or unwittingly – a chance for a better future is taking hold. Thatcher’s life denying mantra – “There is no alternative” – no longer rings true, and more people by the day are questioning the status quo. Perhaps enough will awaken, and we will be able to save ourselves after all.
Sanctuary
Sanctuary
4670 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 08, 2018, 21:22
phallus dei wrote:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It’s getting rare these days to have genuine debates, instead of two sides screaming at each other, both refusing to listen.

I agree that it can be hard to discern how much of Trump's actions are planned out, and how much are spur-of-the-moment outbursts. The image of rash late-night tweets is hard to shake. But the fact that he has managed to survive politically thus far, and make a few real accomplishments to boot, suggests that there is a "method to his madness." If Trump was the idiot he is made out to be, wouldn't he have been neutralized by now? How many times have the “experts” told us, "this is the end of Trump"? And yet?

Another question is if Trump means what he says. He's clearly an egotist, but which politician isn't? Aside from a Gandhi or Che Guevara, most leaders are motivated in part by self-interest. Perhaps Trump tapped into genuine public discontent, but just manipulated that discontent to satisfy his ego to become president. But if so, why would Trump maintain such a confrontational stance AFTER becoming president? For the sake of protecting his "legacy," wouldn’t it make more sense to act according to politics as usual? After all, that is what Obama did, promising a drastic change in direction but instead expanding American imperialism and getting a Noble Peace Prize in the process. Trump could have negated his campaign rhetoric once in office, played according to the “rules,” and the media would have loved him for it. (Recall that the only time the American media referred to Trump as “presidential” was when he was bombing Syria). The fact that Trump isn’t doing this – and gets continuously attacked in the process - suggests that he is sincere in his beliefs. Part of what makes him so refreshing as a politician is that he's actually speaking his mind.

Ultimately, though, what Trump believes is less important than the consequences of his actions. And his actions are for the benefit of humanity. The neoliberal paradigm – crystalized by the Thatcher / Reagan / Kohl axis of evil and continued by every “respectable” Western politician afterward – has brought the planet to ruin. Nations have been erased; cultures destroyed, classes decimated. But now, out of the "chaos" that Trump is creating –wittingly or unwittingly – a chance for a better future is taking hold. Thatcher’s life denying mantra – “There is no alternative” – no longer rings true, and more people by the day are questioning the status quo. Perhaps enough will awaken, and we will be able to save ourselves after all.


Nicely balanced post pd.
Rhiannon
5291 posts

Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 08, 2018, 22:19
perhaps you'd like to add some of your own thoughts, S?
lawrence2
106 posts

Edited Jul 08, 2018, 22:44
Re: Trump. Vaguely cheering news.
Jul 08, 2018, 22:43
OK I wasn't gonna talk about politics ever again here, but...

OK I might surprise everyone left here that I'm really no fan of Trump at all. OK? That said, what's also burning me up lately is alot of people on the Left here in the US are now making George W. look legitimate now. I'm sure everyone know here I fucking hated Dubya! Hated anybody who ever liked him. I think you kinda have a point there Phallus.

I have made a point on Facebook that I think Dubya was a WORSE president than that orange slob we have now. None of my Liberal friends understood it, however. I mean they're saying stuff about the "Trump cult" but wasn't all those believers in Dubya essentially a cult?

And anyways with his loudmouth at least Trump has NOT instituted a policy of torture like Dubya did.

By the way I am pleased that that Charles Kraut-hammer is dead! Part of the Dubya cult himself and deserves to have his grave pist-on! Now if we could only be rid of Ann Coulter...
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