Julian Cope presents Head Heritage

Yeah right pal. 'How To Contain And Isolate Ancient Knowledge Via Examples Of Isolated Cruel Fact In A Convenient Jam Jar Courtesy Of The Daily Heil ', no less. Apart from a few intrepid independent thinkers, most of you are all just STONES AND COMPASSES. That's it. No Spirit. It's like you wander around in your thick socks with your maps and agendas and just don't GET something so vital. SPIRIT. You need 'EVIDENCE'. Are you so boringly immune to the very real magic of these sacred places ? Sadly, it would seem so. You are all just wasting your time and gazing at rocks and arguing about the antiquity of large pebbles. Nothing more. No Soul. No Spirit.

ps: no members of Steely Dan where clubbed over the head in the making of this post.

I really don't know why you have to talk to people like this. I'm going to defend Astralcat because, although I've not met him, know him to be a good, compassionate person who fights vigorously against injustice - whether it be people with disabilities, whales being slaughtered or badgers being killed etc, ect ... a very long list indeed. What does it matter what someone believes about Glastonbury, what is with all this 'prove it' shit. How about a little bit of inclusive courtesy.

That applies to Mustard too, lecturing people about humility ... talk about pot - kettle.

There's a whole lot of presumption going on in that post AC. Just because someone doesn't spend their time writing about mystical-this and spiritual-that doesn't mean that they're "immune" to the magic of these places, just that maybe they don't choose to express that aspect in print. Because maybe they don't have the words and would actually much prefer to try to get other people out there to see for themselves. Not everyone wants to share their "feelings" about everything with everyone. Doesn't mean that they don't have feelings.

Hi tjj, unless I've misunderstood, I don't think anyone's saying that it matters what someone "believes" about Glastonbury at all.

I think what's causing the disagreement is when what someone believes starts to be asserted as fact. "I believe Glastonbury to be a chakra" is a very different statement to "Glastonbury IS a chakra".

Quite often threads on here descend into arguments because opinion starts to become entrenched and then argued as fact. And once someone's opinion is stated as fact, it is likely to be challenged, whereas generally peoples' beliefs won't be challenged in the same way (because they're simply beliefs, thus entirely subjective).

And then the proponent of the original belief-as-fact gets upset because essentially someone appears to be questioning their beliefs, when actually what is being challenged is the assertion that those beliefs are fact.

We have had this time and time again on here and it's only going to keep happening unless people express personal beliefs as "I believe that ..." rather than "it is the case that ...".

Did you miss the bit where your nice man dismissed an entire forum of people as boring and soulless, essentially because they don't accept that Glastonbury is a chakra? Here's the bit in question:

"You are all just wasting your time and gazing at rocks and arguing about the antiquity of large pebbles. Nothing more. No Soul. No Spirit."

So please, spare me the sanctimonious lecture. I couldn't care less what your friend believes. But if he comes to a public forum stating those beliefs as FACTS, then it is not unreasonable to request PROOF. It is also incredibly arrogant behaviour, to elevate one's own personal beliefs above others, by claiming that those beliefs are FACTS.

What about the spirit of a place ? Its natural poetry ? Its inner voice and memory ? These are vitally important. You cannot reduce everything to solely quantifiable facts. The universe includes our dreams, yearnings, visions, loves and sorrows. Places can retain these within the psychic atmosphere.

FYI I bet there's just about no-one here that doesn't believe in and has experienced spirit of place and natural poetry and inner voice - which fact entirely confounds your previous dismissal of us as lacking soul or whatever.

(That doesn't mean they all take those experiences to indicate external forces at work though. There are explanations other than yours you know - which is why you have been asked repeatedly to preface what you say with "I think that..."