|
Unsung Forum » Who's best: Lou Reed or John Cale? |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
Stevo 6664 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 08:36
|
||
|
I tend to go for JC myself too. Lou Reed is interesting through Lester Bangs articles and things, but I prefer Cale's music. I particularly like him live around the turn of the 70s/80s where he's got this twin guitar burn thing going on. & the Island Years compi is pretty essential. Stevo
|
|||
|
Stevo 6664 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 08:49
|
||
|
singingringingtree wrote: Sin Ago wrote: And you could make a pretty good case that MMM was an attempt to rip-off/expand upon Cale's Sun Blindness Music. for sure, completely .. but cale never had the balls to put this stuff out back then + reed did ... not sure about balls, outlet might be more relevant surely? Only place he really could have released it was ESP/disk surely & he was under contract to Verve. There is about a minute of live Velvets on ESP on the East Village Other lp or something though. singingringingtree wrote: velvets post-cale is a bit of a sham for me, I think its still pretty good music. I keep hearing bits opf it as an update on the Sun label sound, maybe it's reverb or something. hopped up semi acoustic rock, possibly its the Gretch guitars? singingringingtree wrote: but props to lou for being crazy/driven enough to get MMM out there ... i was listening to 1st Nico LP earlier today - "it was a pleasure then" = jeez, in a way best velvets track (n)ever ... instrumentally, just lou + cale going at it ... v fine indeed It Was a Pleasure Then is pretty much a studio version of the Melody Laughter instrumental they used to play live. That Melody Laughter tune used to go on for as long as half an hour as the Columbus '66 set shows, a shorter excerpt is on the Peel Slowly & See box set. Was going to say that people have been saying for the last 35 years that some of the idea for MMM seemed to be lifted from Cale, but seems I was partially beaten to it. Stevo
|
|||
The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Edited Apr 24, 2010, 09:14
Apr 24, 2010, 09:13
|
||
|
IanB wrote: In the end it is a bit like the Lennon / Macca thing. Macca gets all the brickbats for being soft whereas it was Lennon who was the real musical conservative in the Beatles pre Yoko. They needed each other to make the best of that they had. Good point. McCartney gets a lot of stick, largely brought on by himself due to his appaling lack of quality control and inability to self edit. This isn't helped by his determination to be a a Renaissance Man/All Round Entertainer/Available For Bar Mitzvahs etc., but it's all to easy to forget his former phenomenal genius. Pepper was his baby, he was more deeply involved in the production and formation of Tomorrow Never Knows than Lennon, the electrifying guitar break on Taxman was him, and a superb bass player, evidenced even more clearly in the recent remasters. When the balance of power shifted after the touring days, McCArtney, for all his faults re. 'granny music' and THAT song, kept The Beatles going. Lennon was lost in a confused pyschedelic haze of self analysis, and George Harrison had already found his unique trip. We wouldn't have the genius of the second period Beatles, or it's seismic musical and cultural influence without McCartney. No matter how much he irritates me with his dyed hair, trainers with suits, astonishing taste in second wives ( nice one Ringo ), thumbs aloft, professional scouser bit, I'll always let him off and look the other way in embarassment. Sorry about the change in conversation Carlos. Had to get that off my chest. Anyway, as much as I respect Lou Reed, I just prefer John Cale as a creative artist.
|
|||
Carlos 3884 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 09:28
|
||
No need to be sorry, dude! The topic title is only a starting point ;-)
|
|||
|
thekremlin 132 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 10:22
|
||
|
i prefer cale but i'm by no means an expert in either. for instance i've never heard Metal Machine Music (i will get myself a copy one day). i really love cale's work with Nico. Used to like Lou better but... dunno... cale just seems to have that bit more substance to me. but, like i said, i'm no expert. as for lennon/macca? there i am if not an expert then very, very aware of pretty much everything both have done (both beatles and solo) and after years of struggle i finally decided that i can't choose between them. in my earlier days i was a total lennon snob but anyone who can write a song as great as Here, There and Everywhere can only be hailed as a genius. Macca has earned the right to do whatever the fuck he wants (Pipes of Peace excepted!). They are both genius.
|
|||
Hunter T Wolfe 1708 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 10:41
|
||
|
I think Ian B hit the nail on the head, there. What's Mo Tucker up to these days?
|
|||
|
Stevo 6664 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 10:55
|
||
|
20 odd replies and no Harry Hill? Reed did destroy the reunion and sped Sterling Morrison's demise. so I think Cale wins. Incidentally the post Reed VU as collected on the Japanese box set seems a lot better than one might fear. Hopped up r'n'r in '71/72 reminded me of Jason & the Scorchers or somebody. No Cale era VU of course but still has some good in it. & Doug Yule/Reed era could rock pretty massively. Check out some of the bootlegs from the era. stevo
|
|||
|
keith a 9573 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 12:38
|
||
|
Reading this thread I can only assume that people have forgotten what a great artist Lou Reed really was. Admittedly I don't know Cales back catalogue as well as I know Lou's (though I must confess there's a few of Lou's missing from my collection) and I'm certainly not going to have a go at Cale - he brought a lot to the Velvets and Drella, has produced some great records along the way apart from managing his own solo career. If the question is who sings best on the re-formed VU live LP, then I'll go for Cale. If the question is who do I respect most these days, then the answer is still Cale. And being totally trite, if the question is who looks the coolest these days then I'd still go for Cale. But that shouldn't alter the fact that Lou really was one of THE greats, and his latter-day records (personally I pretty much gave up on him after Ecstacy) and that bad haircut really shouldn't take away from that.
|
|||
landells 680 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 13:00
|
||
|
I think that is a pretty bang-on assessment In recent years it seems to have become uncool to say you like Lou Reed - admittedly that is partly Lou's own making - but as far as I am concerned, song-wise, Lou has given far far more to world than Cale If I'm being honest, I like the idea of John Cale more than I actually like John Cale
|
|||
handofdave 3515 posts |
Apr 24, 2010, 13:15
|
||
|
Lou. Lou is a bona fide inhabitant of the rock and roll god pantheon. Like with Brian Eno, I like the idea of John Cale better than I actually like John Cale. That is to say, they are both great, don't get me wrong, but I always feel like Eno is a better producer than a writer or performer, and Cale's stuff is equally constrained by some sort of art-school self consciousness. Reed and Warhol were a good match because they both came out of the factory art scene... Warhol the commercial illustrator, and Reed the creator of prefab teen dance tunes. There's something more immediate about their art... When Cale talks about what Reed talks about, it's affected by an academic understanding of music. Reed's approach is more from the gut and his writing is less couched in abstraction and more focused on stories... like with Bob Dylan's song-stories, there's a warmth to them that the relatively icy and detached work of Eno and Cale don't have. I think the Velvet's catalog speaks for itself... and tho Lou's had some duds in his solo career there's some great records in there too.
|
| Pages: 9 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| Unsung Forum Index | |
