Vybik Jon
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 18:34
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If 'Zeppelin' (or indeed 'Sabbath') is a euphemism for some deviant occupation, then it's 'Is'.
If we're talking about bands, then it's 'Are'.
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Mule
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 18:47
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Vybik Jon wrote: If 'Zeppelin' (or indeed 'Sabbath') is a euphemism for some deviant occupation, then it's 'Is'.
If we're talking about bands, then it's 'Are'.
Don't Americans refer to bands in the singular? I think it's actually gramatically correct. I'm an English Language nerd and I see nothing wrong in the statement, "The Brighouse & Rastrick Brass Band is playing tonight."
Although having said that, I can't be that much of a nerd, because I couldn't really give a fuck either way. Mind you, confusing 'less' with 'fewer' and 'number' with 'amount' I will draw the line at. And people who say 'haitch' instead of 'aitch'.
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Mule
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 19:00
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Vybik Jon wrote: zphage wrote: Definitely in the 70's hard rock had not yet calcified into metal.
The first Montrose album would call that statement into question as would large chunks of Budgie's catalogue.
I would say the first Montrose album, while undeniably great, is very much in thrall to Zep. I'd then ask what particular chunks of Budgie do you have in mind? I think they had vaguely proggish slant to their concoctions, albeit fairly hamfisted. I wouldn't begin to argue who was heavy first out of Budgie and Sabbath: Budgie were formed earlier, but didn't record an album 'til after Sabbath. And there's a lot more folkier stuff going on with ol' Budg.
But in terms of influence, I think that of Sabbath is far more audible throughout the history of rock, while Budgie - despite being, to my mind, a consistently good band right up until the fucking horrible 'Deliver Us From Evil' - dropped the ball in the heaviness stakes after 'In For The Kill'.
I can't believe I'm having this debate. Really enjoying it, mind!
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zphage
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Re: Is/Are Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 19:01
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Lots of good stuff here.
Montrose, good point, stripped Zep down ala 'In Rock" was that the first metal album as opposed to hard rock or was it Judas Priest 'Stained Class'?
Priest and Aerosmith both were able to play with the bands they were influenced by, and go on to influence other bands.
Hair metal is definitely Zep via Aerosmith.
Also it seems one has to have finesse to pull off Zep which tends to give us slick approximations: Kingdom Come, Whitesnake, sometimes Aerosmith.
AC/Dc I always see having an affinity with Grand Funk (who toured there), Cactus, Mountain, Chess Blues/rock
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Vybik Jon
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Edited Dec 11, 2007, 09:17
Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 20:01
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I suppose it depends on what you see heavy metal as. If we're talking riff heavy music, then I think Montrose and Budgie fit the bill. LZ certainly did this too, but the guitar riffs didn't always dominate the way they do in heavy metal.
Budgie? In For The Kill, the opening riff to I Can't See My Feelings. the close of Napoleon Bonaparte.
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coldrumhead
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 20:43
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zphage wrote: Actually I was aiming for what their influence on present music is.
And yes, Happy Birthday Mr Penniman, firestorming voice, multiple takes on Specialty Boxes shows he could do it againand againand again ...
and a bow to Mr Esquerita for being such a great influence on Richard.
Who 'bout the sampled drums of the mighty Bonzo on ''When the levee breaks''?
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handofdave
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 20:56
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coldrumhead wrote: Who 'bout the sampled drums of the mighty Bonzo on ''When the levee breaks''?
a city-shaking leviathan of a recording! I always have to turn that one up when I hear it.
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coldrumhead
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 21:02
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handofdave wrote: coldrumhead wrote: Who 'bout the sampled drums of the mighty Bonzo on ''When the levee breaks''?
a city-shaking leviathan of a recording! I always have to turn that one up when I hear it.
There is more where that came from...Kashmir anyone?
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riotmaster
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Edited Dec 06, 2007, 21:04
Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 21:03
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Dog 3000 wrote: Absolutely -- AC/DC certainly weren't following in the footsteps of Cream or the Beatles or Bob Dylan.
Who else would have been their primary inspiration?* Did you think they invented the idea of loud, pounding blues-based rock from out of nowhere in 1973?
well according to the band themselves, Chuck Berry, The Who, The Stones etc
certainly not the Zep! the DC never did overblown pompous cock rock
(not that there's anything wrong with it of course)
but musically they're totally different types of RNR bands
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booga
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Re: Is Zeppelin Really That Good? Maybe Sabbath...
Dec 06, 2007, 21:24
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riotmaster wrote:
well according to the band themselves, Chuck Berry, The Who, The Stones etc
certainly not the Zep! the DC never did overblown pompous cock rock
(not that there's anything wrong with it of course)
but musically they're totally different types of RNR bands
I reckon with AC/DC it was prolly just a case of... they new what they liked (RNR), heard the new stuff (some Sweet, maybe some Quo, maybe even some Raw Power), pluged into the Marshalls, and flew!
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