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Delusion, hope or a lie?
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thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5851 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 16, 2017, 19:49
Hang on, why are you explaining this to me? Are there no leavers who can explain it to me?
nigelswift
7401 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 17, 2017, 14:45
To repeat a current phrase, you can probably go whistle for that.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5851 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 17, 2017, 18:20
:)

Tick Tock.
nigelswift
7401 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 18, 2017, 07:05
Tragic. As someone just tweeted:

A brave PM - I know we don't have one - would now sack Davis, Johnson & Gove and go on TV & explain to the nation why Brexit is bollocks.
nigelswift
7401 posts

Edited Jul 21, 2017, 08:35
Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 21, 2017, 08:29
It's getting ever more definitive:

This from the FT (not a rag, before we're told it is)

https://www.ft.com/content/bf0025aa-6720-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614



The UK once had a deserved reputation for pragmatic and stable politics. That will not survive the spectacular mess it is making of Brexit.

Remember what has happened. In an unnecessary referendum, a small majority chose an option they could not understand, because it had not been worked out. Thereupon, a new prime minister, with no knowledge of the complexities, adopted the hardest possible interpretation of the outcome. She triggered the exit process in March 2017, before shaping a detailed negotiating position. Some 70 days later, in an unnecessary election, she lost both her majority and her authority.

The Conservative party is so split over Brexit as to be no longer a coherent party of government. It is, as a result, questionable whether the compromises needed over money owed to the EU, rights of EU residents and the role of the European Court of Justice, could win approval in parliament. The Labour party will offer no relief: it wants another general election and is now about as split over Brexit as the Tories.

Meanwhile, Michel Barnier, the EU’s negotiator, patiently explains, as if to inattentive children, that “the clock is ticking”. In late March 2019, the UK will exit the EU. If businesses are to make sensible plans, they will need to know what is going to happen no later than a year from now. If the deal is to be ratified, it must be sealed by autumn 2018.

Moreover, as the EU has insisted, “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”. Mr Barnier also argues that the UK must recognise that an exit deal will demand a substantial payment. This was in response to Boris Johnson, Britain’s foreign secretary, who remarked in parliament: “I think that the sums that I have seen?.?.?.?seem to me to be extortionate and I think ‘go whistle’ is an entirely appropriate expression.” If the UK sticks to this, there will certainly be no deal, be it a good one or a bad one.
thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat
5851 posts

Open, outward looking Britain
Jul 29, 2017, 08:09
"Britain has changed,” said Michaela Aumüller, who after six years in Cornwall moved to Münster, Germany, in April with her British partner, Richard. “Something has been broken. Neither of us wanted to put up with the new attitude to EU nationals. There were incidents, little things, but they make such a difference.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/brexit-the-eu-nationals-exiting-britain-a-bit-of-me-is-dying-but-i-cant-stay
nigelswift
7401 posts

Re: Open, outward looking Britain
Jul 29, 2017, 08:56
Yay!
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1252&bih=582&q=brexit+celebrations&oq=brexit+celebrations&gs_l=img.12..0.4776.13237.0.15813.19.19.0.0.0.0.775.2619.11j7j6-1.19.0....0...1.1.64.img..0.19.2603...0i8i30k1j0i24k1.fzyp7h1wnSU#imgrc=8qSUIvzb5_V8qM:
Howburn Digger
Howburn Digger
749 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Aug 09, 2017, 14:41
Locodogz wrote:

Firstly...

"Whatever your trade is - if they want it in Europe they will have you. If they dont then they wont. It is a job marketplace. Have fun. No-one gets a free ticket to an international career in whatever... I'm afraid."

IMHO opinion you're missing the point here. Indeed, as things stand this is the case in Europe (because of our EU membership) i.e. if an employer wants you they will have you. Post Brexit there will almost certainly be (politically led) restrictions on this because it represents the freedom of movement, freedom to work that many Brexiteers intrinsically want to stop.
I have family in the states. One of them owns a company that I would be eminently capable of working for and he would happily have offered me a job in my younger years...were it not for US Government legislation i.e. my need to qualify for a green card, which as a non-American, would have required me to demonstrate why no US citizen could do the job (which to be honest just wasn't the case. Ergo not a case of 'if they want you, they will have you' - and something that structurally I think will be heading Europe's way.

Secondly

"But being a false set of data it negates its own self. A bit like parading "2 + 2 = 17 so let's declare war on Iraq" or something on the side of a bus. "

The point that I was (maybe poorly and slightly flippantly, I'll admit) trying to make was that whether it was 1 in 4 or 1 in 40 women being subjected to violence - doesn't diminish the validity of the zero tolerance message. Now obviously if it was an outright lie - and no women were ever the subject of domestic violence - that would be a somewhat different conversation.

Anyway I look forward to your response and, indeed, sincerely hope that you're right about it being as easy for me to work in Europe post Brexit as it currently is. Unfortunately I just don't think that'll be the case. But hey - it's the future and none of us can really know - so we'll just have to see I guess

Firstly...
Then you wouldn't qualify for a Green Card to go and live and work in America like you say for the reasons you state. I don't know what point you are trying to make. If a European Company in a different country doesn't want to employ you either (pre or post Brexit) then you wont get that job either. I have never said getting jobs abroad and moving to a different country was easy.

As for your flippant comment regarding violence towards women. You seem to be wriggling on your own hook by suggesting that "a different conversation would take place" if "no women were ever the subject of domestic violence". Talk about ignoring the point by suggesting an Alternate Universe and proposing a new conversation. I have pointed out that false statistics are not worthy of any form of consideration whether painted on the side of a bus or written on paper. They harm real debate and mask the motives of those who seek to manipulate statistics for their own shabby ends.
It is interesting to watch this professional feminist victim being completely unable to justify her self-justifying "work", her manipulation of false statistics, her layers of supposition and myth-making etc.

https://youtu.be/llu545m16Ps
Locodogz
Locodogz
232 posts

Edited Aug 10, 2017, 09:53
Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Aug 10, 2017, 09:52
"Then you wouldn't qualify for a Green Card to go and live and work in America like you say for the reasons you state. I don't know what point you are trying to make."

----------------------

It's really not that complicated but I'll try to spell it out in simple steps.

I could have an employer offer me a job in the U.S. tomorrow.

Due to political/government restrictions I'd be unable to take it.

I could have an employer offer me a job in Europe tomorrow.

There are currently no political/government restrictions to stop me taking it.

The current consensus is that post Brexit there may well be?

Can you see the point I'm trying to make.
Locodogz
Locodogz
232 posts

Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Aug 10, 2017, 10:05
Oh and nice try to accuse me of being flippant about violence against women BTW when bizarrely it was you that wrote "I've never take much stock of anything which is written on the side of buses since." in regard to a campaign against violence against women (due to a statistical error presumably made in good faith).

Unless of course you just don't understand the point I was making that one statistic being wrong doesn't negate there being an issue of violence against women? Doesn't strike me as being too complicated.

Looking forward to more 'Uncle Henry' anecdotes to suit your narrative!
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