nigelswift
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 08, 2017, 08:59
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Oh dear.
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nigelswift
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 08, 2017, 09:01
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and this: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=75984&message=953875
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nigelswift
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 09, 2017, 11:02
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Another absolutely key pro-Brexit claim exposed as false:
http://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/07/08/german-business-bosses-warn-theresa-may-over-brexit-deal/?ncid=webmail
"Ministers have frequently claimed that German carmakers, along with other key European industries such as French farmers and winemakers, would lobby their governments to agree a comprehensive deal which maintains tariff-free trade between the UK and the other 27 EU member states.
But the leaders of two of Germany's main business organisation said the priority for them was maintaining the integrity of the single market for the 27 remaining members of the European Union."
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Locodogz
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 10, 2017, 09:28
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Hey Sanctuary
Firstly can I say that I genuinely do admire your optimism!!!
You've kind of pulled my 'hey, its the future' line a little out of it's context, if you don't mind me saying. It was specifically applied to the 'freedom of movement/working in Europe' piece as I believe there may well end up being some kind of expedient 'fudge' in this area of Brexit.
As to the whole thing (and I know you won't want to hear this) but I'm broadly with Nigel on this. Every indicator that I've seen (IMHO) points to us all being worse off post Brexit, be that financially or culturally.
Doesn't mean we can't hope for the best, mind.....!
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Sanctuary
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 10, 2017, 13:49
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Locodogz wrote: Hey Sanctuary
Firstly can I say that I genuinely do admire your optimism!!!
You've kind of pulled my 'hey, its the future' line a little out of it's context, if you don't mind me saying. It was specifically applied to the 'freedom of movement/working in Europe' piece as I believe there may well end up being some kind of expedient 'fudge' in this area of Brexit.
As to the whole thing (and I know you won't want to hear this) but I'm broadly with Nigel on this. Every indicator that I've seen (IMHO) points to us all being worse off post Brexit, be that financially or culturally.
Doesn't mean we can't hope for the best, mind.....!
Hi Locodogz
I feel much depends on what articles we choose to take on board or how much we believe from all the mixture of 'experts' we have to put up with on the TV to form our individual opinions.
The fact is, no matter how we play it or claim, nobody knows with certainty and won't until we actually leave. We are in speculation time but I remain upbeat because that's how I am and always will be.
I'm accepting that no matter what I say or what others may say in return, it's a pretty pointless situation as neither of us are going to change our views overnight so we should just agree to disagree. That's what I'm doing anyway and have now moved on.
Keep well
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 11, 2017, 20:44
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This thread is a great summary of the UK's position and influence in Europe, together with our retreat and denial of that position and influence:
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474494512975872
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grufty jim
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 12, 2017, 09:48
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Talk about delusional?!
Anyone read this open letter to the government from Labour's Shadow Health Secretary...?
It's terrifying how irrational politics has become. Here we have a major front-bencher in Labour angrily demanding to know why the government is adopting a policy that he voted for only a few weeks ago. The questions and objections raised in Ashworth's letter are all valid; but it seems to me that the right time to raise them was before voting in favour of the policy.
Or maybe he should have abstained or voted against the policy until he had received answers and clarifications? Well no actually, because then he'd be out of a job.
Corbyn literally fired any front-bencher who refused to vote in favour of leaving Euratom. Seriously. So how the actual fuck does Labour have the gall to complain about the policy now?
We have truly entered the politics of Irrational Nonsense (we all thought we'd been there for years; but how little we knew, eh?) We have entered an era where politicians are attacking others for implementing policies they explicitly endorse.
FFS.
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Locodogz
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 12, 2017, 10:09
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Thats seriously depressing.
It's interesting how both the Labour and Tory parties are so shit scared of upsetting the 'Leave' constituent parts of their voting base - with no regard to their 'Remain' supporters? That said I was surprised at the LibDems GE failure to woo centerist 'Remainers' from either of those parties? I suppose - as long as the parties deem that 'Remainers' have nowhere valid to transfer their support to - they don't really need to pay them any heed?
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nigelswift
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Interesting Brexit litmus
Jul 15, 2017, 09:22
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Speedily dismissing this on the grounds of who it came from or that it's too late will signal that Leave isn't a matter of logic IMO.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40615119
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thesweetcheat
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Re: Delusion, hope or a lie?
Jul 16, 2017, 09:32
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Two good pieces in the Guardian/Observer today. The Observer on the Tory approach to hard Brexit, the Guardian on Labour's youth vote and Brexit.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/15/observer-editorial-tide-is-turning-against-deceitful-and-incompetent-hard-brexiters
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/16/labour-must-foil-brexit-folly-save-economy-youth-vote
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