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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 07:21
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:)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 11:37
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ANOTHER LOSER/TRAITOR! Robert Harris? @Robert___Harris 14h14 hours ago Just as no parliament can bind its successors, no generation can either. The claim that the 2016 referendum is irreversible is nonsense 130 replies . 1,269 retweets 2,318 likes
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Edited Jul 07, 2017, 12:26
Jul 07, 2017, 11:47
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Locodogz wrote: So the fact that it was one in 40 rather than one in 4 women subjected to abuse somehow (in your mind) negates the message that we should have 'zero tolerance' for that kind of violence? You're excelling yourself today HD. I dare say, back in the days of 'Uncle Jimmy's WW2 workaday job' it was probably legal anyway? Before all that Brussels red tape got involved......... No it was a medical statistic that an enthusiastic campaigner managed to get wrong by a factor of ten. It was a completely false set of statistics - that was all. Then we paraded this falsehood on the side of buses and sold it as a franchise to other cities who couldn't (or wouldn't) do their maths. It negates nothing about violence meted out to men by women, women by men, gay women to gay women or gay men to gay men. But being a false set of data it negates its own self. A bit like parading "2 + 2 = 17 so let's declare war on Iraq" or something on the side of a bus. Nothing in what I said negates a message about violence. I myself always have a "Zero Tolerance" of violence. If you don't deal with it, it is a sure fire way of getting hit again. Best to deal with it effectively and quickly before it gets out of hand. Zero tolerance there. We should try to make sure the young adopt these values too. This thread contained a post which portrayed an image of message written on the side of a bus... https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/02/08/09/gettyimages-576855020-0.jpg ...alongside things said to be "written on paper" and "in theory". I was pointing out that I don't believe much that is written on the side of buses and for the very good reasons I stated ie. that an Edinburgh Zero tolerance Campaign was based on hopelessly poor arithmetic which suited the campaigners to run with rather than the uncomfortable truth. So often the case. As for Uncle Jimmy's two extended soujourn's in Europe, he was reflective about his experiences but really hated being forced to work 2,000 feet underground in the Ayrshire coalfields by the British Government in between his two periods of "Zero Tolerance" of Nazi Armies. Rounding up Nazis was easy he said. In a stand off, his platoon often used to offer to buy their weapons from them and then when the Germans handed them over for £5 the British Soldiers would point said captured weapons back at the Nazis and request their money back - which they always got. Without any violence. Which I am sure was the best way.
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thesweetcheat 6209 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 13:14
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Yep, saw that. I seem to recall saying the same thing on here months ago but was obviously wrong.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 13:23
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It's been on my mind all along but anyone that says it gets hit with Oh not another vote blah blah blah. It's conceivable though that in a year or two people may come to the belief that another vote is the lesser of two evils.
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Howburn Digger 986 posts |
Edited Jul 07, 2017, 13:55
Jul 07, 2017, 13:48
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Locodogz wrote: Wow - is that supposed to be a serious response? To judge by your Uncle Jimmy's dates I'm assuming he was "doing a job" in WW2 - hardly comparable with current peace time working practices? The notion that he "He didn't even have a passport let alone a visa." is hardly relevant? Obviously if thats meant to be humorous then ha ha ha......? I went to school with a French kid whose dad was working in Irvine. That was 1968. Another school pal has been working in Paris since 1979. A young relative of mine currently reads the news in France (with a fine Scottish accent). People have been working across Europe for centuries. Whatever your trade is - if they want it in Europe they will have you. If they dont then they wont. It is a job marketplace. Have fun. No-one gets a free ticket to an international career in whatever... I'm afraid. Howburn Digger wrote: Sin Agog wrote: Aaaaah... writ large on the side of a bus statistics I remember the "Zero Tolerance" Campaign which ran on the side of Edinburgh Buses (LRT) in the early 1990's. Alongside arty, tastefully posed black and white images of women in distress was writ large a statistic which proclaimed that "1 in 4" women in Scotland were being subjected to some form of violence or domestice abuse. This campaign ran for years. The "Zero Tolerance" campaign was turned into a franchise and was sold along with bus livery and poster images to "sister cities" around Britain and the World. It was never stated whether this figure related to "every year", "every week" or "once in their lifetimes". It took till the early 2000's for a shameful admission to emerge from the Edinburgh "Zero Tolerance" Group... that they had got their arithmetic wrong BY A FACTOR OF TEN. It should have read "1 in 40" - a figure which equates with the rate of domestic violence meted out against male partners by their female partners. I've never take much stock of anything which is written on the side of buses since. Locodogz wrote: So the fact that it was one in 40 rather than one in 4 women subjected to abuse somehow (in your mind) negates the message that we should have 'zero tolerance' for that kind of violence? You're excelling yourself today HD. I dare say, back in the days of 'Uncle Jimmy's WW2 workaday job' it was probably legal anyway? Before all that Brussels red tape got involved......... No it was a medical statistic that an enthusiastic campaigner managed to get wrong by a factor of ten. It was a completely false set of statistics - that was all. Then we paraded this falsehood on the side of buses and sold it as a franchise to other cities who couldn't (or wouldn't) do their maths. It negates nothing about violence meted out to men by women, women by men, gay women to gay women or gay men to gay men. But being a false set of data it negates its own self. A bit like parading "2 + 2 = 17 so let's declare war on Iraq" or something on the side of a bus. Nothing in what I said negates a message about violence. I myself always have a "Zero Tolerance" of violence. If you don't deal with it, it is a sure fire way of getting hit again. Best to deal with it effectively and quickly before it gets out of hand. Zero tolerance there. We should try to make sure the young adopt these values too. This thread contained a post which portrayed an image of message written on the side of a bus... https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/02/08/09/gettyimages-576855020-0.jpg ...alongside things said to be "written on paper" and "in theory". I was pointing out that I don't believe much that is written on the side of buses and for the very good reasons I stated ie. that an Edinburgh Zero tolerance Campaign was based on hopelessly poor arithmetic which suited the campaigners to run with rather than the uncomfortable truth. So often the case. As for Uncle Jimmy's two extended soujourn's in Europe, he was reflective about his experiences but really hated being forced to work 2,000 feet underground in the Ayrshire coalfields by the British Government in between his two periods of "Zero Tolerance" of Nazi Armies. Rounding up Nazis was easy he said. In a stand off, his platoon often used to offer to buy their weapons from them and then when the Germans handed them over for £5 the British Soldiers would point said captured weapons back at the Nazis and request their money back - which they always got. Without any violence. Which I am sure was the best way.
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Locodogz 254 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 15:12
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So I've a feeling that this will be futile but I going to ask you about two point you make (and then I'll happily let you have the last word!) Firstly... "Whatever your trade is - if they want it in Europe they will have you. If they dont then they wont. It is a job marketplace. Have fun. No-one gets a free ticket to an international career in whatever... I'm afraid." IMHO opinion you're missing the point here. Indeed, as things stand this is the case in Europe (because of our EU membership) i.e. if an employer wants you they will have you. Post Brexit there will almost certainly be (politically led) restrictions on this because it represents the freedom of movement, freedom to work that many Brexiteers intrinsically want to stop. I have family in the states. One of them owns a company that I would be eminently capable of working for and he would happily have offered me a job in my younger years...were it not for US Government legislation i.e. my need to qualify for a green card, which as a non-American, would have required me to demonstrate why no US citizen could do the job (which to be honest just wasn't the case. Ergo not a case of 'if they want you, they will have you' - and something that structurally I think will be heading Europe's way. Secondly "But being a false set of data it negates its own self. A bit like parading "2 + 2 = 17 so let's declare war on Iraq" or something on the side of a bus. " The point that I was (maybe poorly and slightly flippantly, I'll admit) trying to make was that whether it was 1 in 4 or 1 in 40 women being subjected to violence - doesn't diminish the validity of the zero tolerance message. Now obviously if it was an outright lie - and no women were ever the subject of domestic violence - that would be a somewhat different conversation. Anyway I look forward to your response and, indeed, sincerely hope that you're right about it being as easy for me to work in Europe post Brexit as it currently is. Unfortunately I just don't think that'll be the case. But hey - it's the future and none of us can really know - so we'll just have to see I guess
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Locodogz 254 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 15:25
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As a few people might have noticed I'm always curious as to where the money is going on these things!?! So Betfair are currently offering 1.55-1 on there being another EU referendum before 2020 (slight favourite over the 1.66-1 on offer against it) Better news (IMHO) is that on the question of which party will win the most seats in the next General Election (whenever that may be) William Hill have Labour as a fairly strong favourite (4/6) against the Tories (11/10) - might back the Tories on the grounds that at least if they win I'll be able to go out and drown my sorrows in style........!?!?!
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thesweetcheat 6209 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 16:37
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Haha! It's an ill wind etc etc.
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thesweetcheat 6209 posts |
Jul 07, 2017, 16:40
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nigelswift wrote: It's been on my mind all along but anyone that says it gets hit with Oh not another vote blah blah blah. It's conceivable though that in a year or two people may come to the belief that another vote is the lesser of two evils. Not to mention "but it's the Will of The People". One of the best ironies of the whole thing is the worries from Leavers that Parliament might dare to exercise the sovereignty that apparently the vote to leave was meant to ensure. I think many people have been of that opinion all along :)
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