|
U-Know! Forum » I did it |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
sanshee 1080 posts |
Sep 18, 2014, 15:45
|
||
|
Voted 'no' to nasty nationalism. Had enough of the saltire rubbed in my face, telling me I'm not Scottish enough. If it goes Yes, that ain't going away, and of you think you're being 'left leaning' by supporting breaking us away and tearing up our country, your political compass if fucked, if you ever had one. We have all been subject to a pile of crap thrown at us over the years by govts in London and the answer to that isn't to scurry away and from a 'new govt' it is to stay and fight to change the one we have. All of us. The Scottish Greens, the 'Scottish Socialists' all in there, waving the flag doing their bit to divide and conquer, and oh lord who would believe of 'politicians' - have a grab of power themselves. All cosying up to the SNP and their 'soil nationalism'. How can true socialists and greens ever see merit in tearing a union asunder, deciding one part is more worthy of their attention than another? Working class is working class, middle class is middle class, and toffs is toffs. That is how we all identify ourselves, how we socialise, how we relate to our fellow people. So you can spout 'Scotland will get the govt it votes for' all you want, already the premise is rotten, and blows any notion of that meaning anything in the first place. And as it is about 'soil' nationalism right now, soon as things being to fray, the 'blood part' but may just come next. We blamed one union for our ills, who's next? Sound good to you? May pop back later, probably not sleeping tonight, hopefully we get rid of this sickness. Peace to you all x
|
|||
flatboxertwin 369 posts |
Edited Sep 18, 2014, 21:49
Sep 18, 2014, 21:44
|
||
|
Hear hear,me too. There have been aspects of the yes campaign that have been. very nasty, but the thing I hated the most was the refusal to counter any criticism with reasoned argument. Instead they would attack the person levelling the criticism,accusing them of arrogance,lies and a belief that the Scottish people are "daft". Also,Salmond has a very condescending manner of talking in interviews, peppering his speech with little chuckles,and Sturgeon and Swinney are doing it too. Expectations seem to be for No to prevail, and if so I pray we can put this ugly beast back in its box for a long time. There is already far too much sorrow in the world without us creating more.
|
|||
grufty jim 1978 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 01:24
|
||
|
Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees... you find yourself too close to a thing to see it clearly. I'm guessing that's what it's been like living in Scotland recently. I say that because pretty much every time a 'No' voter discusses the referendum, they talk about a "rejection of nationalism". I find that bizarre because from outside Scotland both campaigns have had roughly the same amount of nationalist rhetoric... in fact, while the 'Yes' campaigners often felt obliged to exercise some restraint on the issue (certainly when appearing on the political discussion shows I've encountered), the unbridled British nationalism that often emanated from the 'No' camp was unsettling. I guess it's easier to not see something if you're more comfortable with it. The 'No' vote isn't a rejection of nationalism; it's a preference for British nationalism over Scottish. How can it be otherwise when it's a question of which nation you wish to be part of...? when the bulk of the campaign has been driven by right wing and centre-right British political parties...? This is a campaign fronted by tories, by Miliband and UKIP; a campaign endorsed by the US government, the banks and the captains of industry. And yet the 'No' camp point at Alex Salmond as though he's a major liability. You're standing next to Nigel Farage and complaining about the company others keep? Really? You don't see even a smidgin of inconsistency there? And I had to laugh when George Galloway came out as a unionist. Suddenly people were falling over themselves to insist that "while I'd never usually give credence to the man, what he has to say about independence is worth listening to". You could almost hear them nod sagely. But I guarantee those very same people - had Galloway put forward an equally reasonable argument for a 'Yes' vote - would have been howling with derision... calling the man a lunatic and damning the 'Yes' vote by association. There are very good arguments against Scottish independence. But standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the tory party while calling the SNP names is so obviously inconsistent it's just bloody weird. But so many people are doing it. Similarly, when the 'No' campaign includes UKIP and David Cameron waving a Union Jack, the notion that it represents a rejection of nationalism makes no bloody sense to me. It was best summed up on a recent radio show which included a German couple living and working in Scotland. They were both voting 'Yes' and their reasoning was very simple; they found British nationalism far more problematic than Scottish nationalism. They wanted closer ties with Europe and felt that Britain was moving very firmly in the opposite direction and didn't want Scotland dragged with it. These people saw their 'Yes' vote as a clear rejection of nationalism. Weird, eh? Anyone who suggested that Scotland would have become some left-wing paradise after independence was talking shite, but Britain as a whole is moving very noticeably rightwards. It's being dragged there by UKIP, with the Tories and Labour doing their best to help. There's no way to know which way an independent Scotland would have gone, but so long as it's joined to the rest of Britain, it's heading rightwards. Ultimately it's irrelevant. If the 'Yes' campaign get as much as 40% I'll be surprised. People are terrified of change and won't choose it unless they perceive no other option. That's not a Scottish thing, or a British thing. It's all of us.
|
|||
Robot Emperor 762 posts |
Edited Sep 19, 2014, 03:04
Sep 19, 2014, 02:36
|
||
|
sanshee wrote: Voted 'no' to nasty nationalism... grufty jim wrote: Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees... you find yourself too close to a thing to see it clearly... Don't ever become a politician man. It's really not your thing. On reflection that would usually be compliment. And doubtless Sanshee and flatboxertwin are too polite to call you out for being patronising. So carry on.
|
|||
|
Evergreen Dazed 1881 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 12:58
|
||
|
grufty jim wrote: The 'No' vote isn't a rejection of nationalism; it's a preference for British nationalism over Scottish. How can it be otherwise when it's a question of which nation you wish to be part of...? Yes it is a rejection of nationalism. It's a vote against a 'refreshing' of old, bitter nationalist thinking, feeling, and it's a rejection of nationalism being a helpful way of seeing ourselves and the world. Remaining as part of Britain is not nationalism, it is simply remaining part of an historic union, which the wicked and wonderful ways of the world have created. We can't do anything about the past. But we can improve. Staying as part of the UK is not about being nationalistic about 'Britain', it is simply ignoring nationalism. Remaining as we are, as we have been created by events in the past, and not all good ones, in order that we might go forward from this point we find ourselves at, not backwards. We need to move away from nationalism, not give it a new lease of life. We can still feel proud of where we come from, of the people we are around, we can still feel proud about the area where we grew up, where we live etc but in our dealings with each other as mostly clueless human beings on this ridiculously strange planet I believe we need to travel towards the inclusive, not exclusive. No flag waving.
|
|||
Vybik Jon 7717 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 12:58
|
||
|
Good stuff, Jim. Measured analysis (as ever).
|
|||
|
Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 16:27
|
||
|
Stop press! Salmond's quit.
|
|||
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 18:49
|
||
There you go. Being American I was ambivolent about the Scottish independence thing myself. Not that I'm for those Tories, which I'm not...
|
|||
|
Lawrence 9547 posts |
Sep 19, 2014, 18:52
|
||
Kudos man!
|
|||
thispoison 253 posts |
Edited Sep 19, 2014, 22:30
Sep 19, 2014, 22:26
|
||
|
Sanshee and flatboxertwin - you fools. 'Well meaning', no doubt, but still fools. Enjoy your frankly hideous and morally bankrupt Union. I wonder what will follow the food banks, bedroom tax, the disgraceful replacement of The Disability Living Allowance by the Personal Payment Plan (P.I.P.), ongoing privatisation of the NHS, and the continual hiving off of Public Services to turn a profit for the Govts powerful 'friends'. You must be feeling very proud. Did you see Chris Grayling's appearance at the 2012 Parliamentary Debate on ATOS / ESA? Slouched back in his seat, completely bored and disinterested in the cases of suicide and misery caused by the ATOS Work Capabilty Assessment, which were being recounted by opposition MP's? (2012 Parliamentary Debate on ATOS / ESA - go to 1:12:20, or even better, listen to the full debate:) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I9o4cDsTZwI This campaign was won for the 'NO' side by scaremongering and lying by the vested interests of the UK poltical / business and media 'elite'. Lies are lies you know, even when told by the BBC's Political Editor. If you don't know what I'm talking about you really had no business voting at all. Being informed is being forearmed. (Nick Robinson Lies:) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lRDDtsUIJwg This was a once in a lifetime practical opportunity to take power in our own hands, and (YES) make Scotland a better and fairer place to live and work (and be too sick to work, either physically or mentally). Oh, and enjoy the forthcoming Tory / UKIP coalition. May you live with your face under the bootheel of Westminster forever. Fooled you twice, Suckers. STOP PRESS: Evidence of Vote Rigging yesterday begins to emerge: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IhTtVnCLq9A +Sign the petition (target 100,000): https://www.change.org/p/alex-salmond-we-the-undersigned-demand-a-revote-of-the-scottish-referendum-counted-by-impartial-international-parties
|
| Pages: 3 – [ 1 2 3 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
