Moon Cat
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Re: A/V?
Apr 19, 2011, 17:14
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Heh!
Not sure i credit the BNP with that level of sophistication though.
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Deepinder Cheema
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Edited Apr 19, 2011, 21:06
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 21:04
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Quite right about the exaggerated slur that is the Tories. Remind yourself of their Conservative Party Political pre-election broadcast that a coalition alternative would be disaster for the country. They were assuming that the most likely outcome would be a Labour Liberal coalition. Never would I have expected a joining of the Liberals with the Tories.
Nothing good ever becomes of voting Conservative.
I see that the Pilot involved with the Nigel Farage crash has been jailed for making threats to kill.
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nigelswift
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 09:29
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"Who selects cabinet ministers ? Who selects sub-committees ?, etc, etc."
The government.
In proportion to who is deemed to have won - i.e. one party or several (as has just happened).
As for sub committees, those are already "party-proportional" under our FPTP system so there'd be no great culture change there.
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stray
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 10:17
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nigelswift wrote: IMO the "AV = weak government" assertion is a bit of an exaggerated slur by the Tories. Throughout the world coalitions work, people make them work and mostly they don't collapse straight away. It's us that have the peculiar system.
GAH! Because the rest of their parlimentary system is geared to function with coalition governments. Ours isn't, not even remotely, internally its still geared to FPTP. Who selects cabinet ministers ? Who selects sub-committees ?, etc, etc.
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stray
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 10:40
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Er its not that cut and dried. Cabinet minister selection is not the decision of the winning party, its a decision made by the PM. Sure, in a coalition Govt you have members of all parties in the cabinet, but it's the PM who ultimately hires/fires. Surely, to be proportional, the ratio of party members must under AV directly reflect the vote yeah ? This goes down to ruling who will be selecting who will be the PM, it all does really.
True there is no great culture change with selecting sub-committee members, it will remain the same dark horse trading game it is now. Party proportional yep, but not vote proportional (certain people in all parties will never have any hope of getting onto a committee). AV is window dressing, it will make absolutely no difference to democratic process. We have a party system, built for FPTP, and a parlimentary system built to function in regards to it.
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Rhiannon
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 14:40
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sounds like you're saying things can never change, let's not try?
Things do change though, at the beginning of the last century there were basically the liberals and the tories. But socialist activists got the labour party going did they not? And thus we have the NHS and many other lovely things.
Dunno what happened to all that though :)
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ratcni01
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 18:00
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Yeah, it's goona be good leaving Tory, Libdem, BNP, UKIP boxes empty
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Deepinder Cheema
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Edited Apr 21, 2011, 03:03
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 20, 2011, 18:21
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ratcni01 wrote: Yeah, it's goona be good leaving Tory, Libdem, BNP, UKIP boxes empty
The nutshell. You can register a no vote quite effectively by AV. If you hate the Tories then vote for AV if it makes you feel good.
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