sanshee
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 14:44
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Won't AV just lead to even more coalitions?
Weak minority govts?
Thing is, this lot got in coz a great precentage of people didn't get off their bums to vote in the first place. 'Not voting' was the 'protest vote'.
How does A/V represent/address that?
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Deepinder Cheema
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 14:59
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I would vote for AV simply because it will frighten the status quo. Now they will really have to dance upon hot coals for their supper.
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Popel Vooje
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Edited Apr 20, 2011, 18:18
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 14:59
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ratcni01 wrote: The response is BOING BOING of course 8^D
Yours, helpful of Nottinghamshire
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PS. I like be able to vote Labour, then Green or somesuch cobination but not vote at all for tory scum or nazis
Same here - but as PMM points out above, you don't have to rank all the candidates under A/V. The Tories/EDL/UKIP/BNP/Nf etc certainly won't be getting any of my votes, whether under an A/V or FPTP system.
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ratcni01
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 15:00
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It doesn't address not partipating, and it may lead to more coalitions, but isn't that in itself more representative? Less may happen, but are we even sure that's the case. Thoreau's assertion that "Government is best that governs least" might be best, that way at least they can't fuck it up! No extreme tory cuts, sadly not the reforms we might like to see in the short term but probably more gradual movement. Small evolutionary steps (but only small reverse steps) rather than radical reform of the NHS or whatever the latest fucking idiot idea is.
Every time people try to make big changes it goes wrong because, well the usual .. the trouble is with humans.
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Rhiannon
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Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 15:22
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how is it supposed to lead to more coalitions? If it does, isn't that because it's a more democratic outcome that more fairly represents what people actually voted for? is that supposed to be a bad thing?! It's not an argument to say av is less democratic and then imply it's more democratic?
Also, I think the 'not participating' thing is a red herring. Everyone can participate, and if they choose not to, and if they don't get the mp they want, so what?
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Moon Cat
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Re: A/V?
Apr 19, 2011, 15:37
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Toni Torino wrote:
The way I see it, parties who are most likely to have the 2nd and 3rd preferences counted first will typically be those Little Englander/Fascist/Libertarian nut-jobs who are Tories at heart.
If it helps, the BNP are campaigning AGAINST A/V. That, along with Call Me Dave's stance, is almost reason enough to say YES in my book.
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Toni Torino
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Re: A/V?
Apr 19, 2011, 15:48
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Moon Cat wrote: Toni Torino wrote:
The way I see it, parties who are most likely to have the 2nd and 3rd preferences counted first will typically be those Little Englander/Fascist/Libertarian nut-jobs who are Tories at heart.
If it helps, the BNP are campaigning AGAINST A/V. That, along with Call Me Dave's stance, is almost reason enough to say YES in my book.
Hmmm.... sounds suspiciously like that South Park episode where the KKK vote to change the racist flag...
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sanshee
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Edited Apr 19, 2011, 16:04
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 15:50
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Well, if it happens it happens. And hopefully, Clegg falls right off the radar as a result, getting just what he asked for, but not in the way he asked for it. That'd be sweet.
Still, I can't get my head round voting 'in order of preference', takes me to vote for one! But I always do, and still will, given there would be no obligation to vote for any more than that.
EDIT: Though something tells me that when that paper's in front of you, it may have that psychological effect 'survey questions do' where you answer a question just because one's being asked of you. Bit like how yer brain scrambles for the right words when giving a driver directions. But who knows.
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nigelswift
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Edited Apr 19, 2011, 17:21
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 16:18
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IMO the "AV = weak government" assertion is a bit of an exaggerated slur by the Tories. Throughout the world coalitions work, people make them work and mostly they don't collapse straight away. It's us that have the peculiar system.
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sanshee
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Edited Apr 19, 2011, 17:05
Re: In praise of Clegg:
Apr 19, 2011, 16:50
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It's partly because of the 'not participating' thing that we got the lot we did, whoch is prompting alot of the "yes" responses, so I'd say it's more than a 'red herring'.
A/V would be no more democratic in those circumstances, but eff all we can do there.
Still, only compulsory voting would address that, which does leave me a bit queasy.
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