handofdave
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 16, 2009, 18:23
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Overpopulation and people who don't teach their kids to behave themselves are two entirely different issues.
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sanshee
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Edited Nov 16, 2009, 18:53
Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 16, 2009, 18:51
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Now, how could I guess you didn't care for children much?
As for 'Conrad' and 'Tarquin'...where exactly do you go to eat?
I'd try somewhere your more likely to meet a 'Brian' or a 'Steve'.
;-)
x
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The Sea Cat
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Edited Nov 16, 2009, 19:07
Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 16, 2009, 19:03
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sanshee wrote: Now, how could I guess you didn't care for children much?
As for 'Conrad' and 'Tarquin'...where exactly do you go to eat?
I'd try somewhere your more likely to meet a 'Brian' or a 'Steve'.
;-)
x
Actually, I don't do them running amok trendy uncheked either. Growl.
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Merrick
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 13:56
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dodge one wrote: Your on a bit of a tangent Dave.
yeah, that sort of thing tends to happen when someone makes a sweeping racist generalisation
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Merrick
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 14:05
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The Sea Cat wrote: we don't think that Tiger penis will cure us of Lumbago
Nope, but you can walk into your local Holland and Barrett and buy shark cartilage or coral calcium. Or try your local hippy shop for 'healing' crystals mined in near-slave conditions by people who'll be dead of emphysema by 40.
The Sea Cat wrote: Slaughtering a conscious preganant whale upon a boat whilst you remove it's unborn calf, for example, to satisfy your national 'tastes' is another concept altogether and cannot be catagorised under anything other than utterly horrendous on every level.
absolutely. but no worse than torching rainforests and driving orang-utans to extinction to make palm oil so we can eat more biscuits and ready meals, or logging them to improve our choice of decking. The destruction of natural habitat and slaughter of intelligent animals goes on around the world to feed the overconsumers who pay for the end products. Those rich-nation folks certainly include Japan, but also Western Europe and North America.
The stance taken by Sea shepherd against whaling is magnificent, but we have no real moral high ground as a culture when we are doing equivalent things on a far greater scale.
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Daminxa
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 16:21
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We're not personally though, are we? I don't think anyone here (correct me if I'm wrong) would buy teak decking harvested from virgin rainforest or eat whale meat or take ground sea-horses for constipation.
We can't always hide behind the fact that the UK is guilty of heinous crimes against the environment and not speak out against things like whaling. We're still allowed to object. And some people are bound to find some acts of environmental vandalism more upsetting than others; for example, I find the idea of pregnant whales being slaughtered more upsetting and emotive than a tree being cut down, now I KNOW one isn't necessarily worse than the other but I'm only human and some things are gonna jangle my chain more than others.
Nobody's saying the UK is squeaky clean on these matters, all we can do is avoid companies involved in environmental destruction, which is easier said than done, but we're still allowed to shout 'THAT'S FUCKING APPALLING!' about whaling, because when all's said and done it is.
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Merrick
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Edited Nov 18, 2009, 16:42
Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 16:40
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Daminxa wrote: We're not personally though, are we?
Largely, no. But we were talking about cultural tendencies and deeds. That's why I said 'we have no real moral high ground as a culture'.
Daminxa wrote: I don't think anyone here (correct me if I'm wrong) would buy teak decking harvested from virgin rainforest
Like I said, the subject in hand isn't individuals within the cultures. However, I do suspect we all eat ex-rainforest palm fat, and I'd bet there's a few crystal healing folks on this board too.
Daminxa wrote: We can't always hide behind the fact that the UK is guilty of heinous crimes against the environment and not speak out against things like whaling.
I completely agree. But the discussion was about the superiority of our culture compared to the cruelty of Chinese and Japanese culture. Whaling stands out as a significant difference, but on the scale of things when it's all balanced out we have no superiority, only greater squeamishness. As long as we don't *see* our cruelty we tend to be happy with it.
That is, as you rightly say, not an argument for allowing whaling, but an argument for objecting to cruelty wherever we find it. It is, however, an argument against the branding of Chinese and Japanese culture as markedly more cruel than our own.
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Daminxa
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 17:12
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I have no grounds to describe any Asian culture as crueller or less cruel than ours. I think a very bad picture is often painted of those cultures though; the fact that they still have the death penalty and torture in China, and that dead babies have been seen in the street by tourists, rather clouds our view. I don't know how true any of this is, never having been to China but I suspect that's why people here have decided Chinese culture is more cruel than Western culture. I suspect, however, that far eastern culture may view us as being similarly barbaric and vile one way or another; human nature and all that.
I certainly don't see British culture as anything to be particularly proud of which is why I don't adhere to many aspects of it. I think the term 'culture' itself leads to all sorts of generalisations and stereotyping. Within every culture there are those that seek change, and I'd like to think that's what goes on here on Uknow.
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The Sea Cat
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Edited Nov 18, 2009, 17:46
Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 17:38
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I agree with Daminxa and I agree with your general argument as well, but, Dodge's point was also equally valid. It's a matter of degree and perspective and I stand by this. There are so many shameful areas in all cultures ( Gandhi, when asked what he thought about Western civilisation replied that he though it would be a very good idea ) and I do not make exemptions here, but it is my belief that certain blanket cultural differences in attitude in some areas are a reality. Applying a Mea Culpa liberalism is not going to address the dire situation re. wildlife and the Natural World. We should be custodians, but the human race shares collective guilt. Whilst we are all guilty, it is a plain truth that some nations have a more laissez faire approach to natural resources than others. Fact. I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about mind set. We all need to do some serious painful soul seaching.
OM SHANTI.
PS: WE NEED A WHOLE LOT MORE JESUS, AND A WHOLE LOT LESS ROCK AND ROLL !
;-) with feckin' knobs on !
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dodge one
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Re: Whalers Beware !
Nov 18, 2009, 17:47
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Actually doing something.
http://www.wspa.org.uk/wspaswork/whaling/whalingresources.aspx
http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/save_whales_not_whaling/take_action/
http://www.campaign-whale.org/campaigns.php?act=full&article=Help%20Stop%20Iceland's%20Whale%20Killers
http://www.campaign-whale.org/letters.php
http://www.campaign-whale.org/petitions.php
http://www.eia-international.org/what_can_i_do/stop_japans_commercial_whaling/
http://www.wdcs.org/stop/killing_trade/story_details.php?select=48
My personal cause that i have supported for many years is this one.
http://www.worldwildlife.org/
Try and actually do something. Just talking about it here on U-KNOW {a sub-set of a rock and roll web-site} is all very nice and all, but not likely to do anything.
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