|
U-Know! Forum » It's really gonna kick off (well....maybe) |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
head-first 214 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 15:32
|
||
|
I agree with Duckbreath. Griffin won't spend the whole programme quoting from Mein Kampf. He'll be responding to questions on subjects like the postal strike, and doing his utmost to present a very particular image. This will be one of a 'reasonable' champion of common sense. A friend to the ordinary (ethnically English, hetrosexual) man on the street. A contradiction in democratic societies is the granting of free speech to those who oppose it. This is admirable, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the BNP's share of the national vote won't decline after this programme.
|
|||
handofdave 3515 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 16:20
|
||
|
head-first wrote: A contradiction in democratic societies is the granting of free speech to those who oppose it. This is admirable, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the BNP's share of the national vote won't decline after this programme. No, of course it won't. Most racists don't 'convert' upon being informed that they are prejudiced. People who are brought up to be tolerant and egalitarian stay that way, for the most part, too. You simply cannot impose speech restrictions in a free society without compromising the very principles it's founded on. Banishing bad ideas or speech only gives the bearers of such filth a kind of underground legitimacy.... in effect, by making them 'too dangerous', you're granting them power. People begin to wonder why the larger society is so afraid. It puts that society in the difficult position of having to explain why it permits some speech and not others. And where does it stop once you begin? Shutting down free speech is a slippery slope that can go both ways.
|
|||
grufty jim 1978 posts |
Edited Oct 22, 2009, 18:46
Oct 22, 2009, 18:42
|
||
|
handofdave wrote: You simply cannot impose speech restrictions in a free society without compromising the very principles it's founded on. Of course you can. And we do all the time. There are plenty of restrictions on free speech and we not only find them acceptable, but in some cases necessary to the preservation of a free society. And I'm not only talking about "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" kind of stuff (though that does count, as hackneyed as it may seem). In certain cases, extreme historical revisionism and incitement to violence or hatred are rightly proscribed. And we have libel laws and advertising standards to further restrict "free speech". Coca-Cola are breaking the law if they say their drink cures cancer. handofdave wrote: Banishing bad ideas or speech only gives the bearers of such filth a kind of underground legitimacy.... in effect, by making them 'too dangerous', you're granting them power. But I'm not suggesting banishing the BNP or trying to silence them. And I've not heard many others make that suggestion either. It's a question of context. You may be unaware, but the BNP have been interviewed several times on the BBC. They get to make party political broadcasts on national television. They do not lack access to the media. But this is the wrong forum for them to appear in. And refusing to share a platform with fascists isn't the same thing as denying them the right to one. For all of sanshee's scepticism, Question Time is the only regular mainstream political debate show (i.e. it gets more than a handful of viewers), and as such occupies an important position in UK political culture. By inviting the BNP to be participants at that debate, I still maintain that the BBC is helping normalise the fascist voice. This won't be a show where Nick Griffin is constantly grilled about his party's policies (though there will be an element of that of course). Instead it's a show where he'll be asked to share his views on the Postal Strike (views, I suspect, that will be relatively reasonable), extra troops to Afghanistan (again, he'll sound sane on that topic) and a bunch of other stuff. This programme runs a serious risk of presenting him as something other than the racist he is. The saving grace is the fact that Griffin, the person, is a buffoon of the highest order and is likely to make a complete arse of himself. But that's hardly the point. What happens in 5 years time when the BNP have a bright, charismatic leader and it's perfectly normal for him to be invited onto mainstream political debate shows? handofdave wrote: People begin to wonder why the larger society is so afraid. Which people? Which people living on this planet are genuinely unaware of why we should be so worried about fascism and ethnic nationalism? You don't fall foul of Godwin's Law when you bring the Nazis into a discussion about the BNP. And you don't need to go back that far. Look at the recent history of the Balkans. We know exactly what happens when these people become part of the political mainstream. We don't need to "wonder". handofdave wrote: It puts that society in the difficult position of having to explain why it permits some speech and not others. And where does it stop once you begin? Shutting down free speech is a slippery slope that can go both ways. Again. I have to disagree. Almost everyone accepts that the BNP have the right to free speech. But fascists have already provided liberal societies with more than enough justification for treating them with caution, and placing their "free speech" into a specific context. Just my view.
|
|||
Deepinder Cheema 1972 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 18:50
|
||
|
Sadly there seems to be no quick witted comedian on the panel this week. Griffin has managed to get through into the venue for tonight. I just hope he makes an ass of himself, just like Emil Suvundra on the Frost Programme in 1967. Reputations can be lost on TV as well as made. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Savundra
|
|||
|
grufty jim 1978 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 18:57
|
||
|
Deepinder Cheema wrote: Sadly there seems to be no quick witted comedian on the panel this week. Griffin has managed to get through into the venue for tonight. I just hope he makes an ass of himself, just like Emil Suvundra on the Frost Programme in 1967. Reputations can be lost on TV as well as made. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Savundra As I've already said, I'm confident that he will make an ass of himself. The problem is the precedent being set (in my opinion).
|
|||
Jim Tones 5142 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 19:03
|
||
|
News just in..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222159/Nick-Griffin-Chaos-BBC-protesters-storm-Television-Centre-ahead-BNP-leaders-Question-Time-showdown.html
|
|||
The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 19:09
|
||
|
I think that the vile moron is best denied any attention whatsoever, but as we are masquerading as a democracy , let him spue his drivel. He and his abhorrent ideology are no threat in real terms, it ain't 'the English Way', when push comes to shove. We should be far more concerned about our civil liberties and the environment, which the general public don't seem to give a fuck about anyway. Bread and Circuses indeed. To paraphrase the mighty Bill Hicks ' Celebrity Big Brother, Go To Sleep UK '. It's the total apathy of the mass population in regard to the very real danger, on so many levels, that we are all in, that really, really fucks me of more than anything else. That's where the danger lies. Peace and Love :-).
|
|||
|
Jim Tones 5142 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 19:15
|
||
I realise it's the Daily Mail- but it was the first one that was up there on google just before I heard the 'taster' headline before the BBC News started-
|
|||
Daminxa 1415 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 19:16
|
||
Now that's a point - I'd quite like Frankie Boyle to be on the panel tonight to have a 'debate' with Griffin. I reckon he WILL come across as the twat he is without any help though. I think it might be the TV event of the year. Sorry eitherway, I'm gonna HAVE to watch...
|
|||
|
Jim Tones 5142 posts |
Oct 22, 2009, 19:20
|
||
|
Daminxa wrote: Now that's a point - I'd quite like Frankie Boyle to be on the panel tonight to have a 'debate' with Griffin. I reckon he WILL come across as the twat he is without any help though. I think it might be the TV event of the year. Sorry eitherway, I'm gonna HAVE to watch... ....or how about Jerry Sadowitz!
|
| Pages: 9 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
