sanshee
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 18, 2009, 18:19
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Hey I can't stand the old bastard and what she stood for, but there are many who are reaping the rewards of the greed ideal she sold to them, yet they'll not fancy admitting to it.
x
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Merrick
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 19, 2009, 10:15
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pooley wrote: She aint the problem any more
Thatcher may go but Thatcherism survives.
Venerating her and what she stood for would make the world a worse place. whereas decrying her and having people be jubilant at her demise and dropping her cadaver down a disused mine shaft would lead to poeple understanding that there is a widespread hatred of her for what she did and what she stood for.
I wonder, 'ah let them have it, they're not the problem anymore' thing - as it would be euqally true of say, Pinochet or Idi Amin, would you have felt it was OK for them to be buried amongst public mourning at vast expense to the countries that they decimated?
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pooley
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 19, 2009, 14:57
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Merrick wrote: pooley wrote: She aint the problem any more
Thatcher may go but Thatcherism survives.
Venerating her and what she stood for would make the world a worse place. whereas decrying her and having people be jubilant at her demise and dropping her cadaver down a disused mine shaft would lead to poeple understanding that there is a widespread hatred of her for what she did and what she stood for.
I wonder, 'ah let them have it, they're not the problem anymore' thing - as it would be euqally true of say, Pinochet or Idi Amin, would you have felt it was OK for them to be buried amongst public mourning at vast expense to the countries that they decimated?
Merrick, I find the Idi amin Pinochet thing a bit ridiculous. I know you like this kind of thinking, but I find it lazy. Argue the point, about the point and none of this nonsense.
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Vybik Jon
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Edited Aug 19, 2009, 15:30
Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 19, 2009, 15:25
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If Merrick does respond (as I'm sure he will (he's got more patience than I have)) you won't accept it or offer any meaningful resposne. The post you responded to offered 2 comparitive situations to your endless riposte of Thatcher being old and you just say "lazy". Fantastic reasoning, pooley.
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pooley
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 19, 2009, 15:34
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Vybik Jon wrote: If Merrick does respond (as I'm sure he will (he's got more patience than I have)) you won't accept it or offer any meaningful resposne. The post you responded to offered 2 comparitive situations to your endless riposte of Thatcher being old and you just say "lazy". Fantastic reasoning, pooley, as ever.
Sigh
I agree that this is an issue that seperates people,and there is no middle ground.
What I can not accept - and Merrick and I have discussed this before on a variety of issues, is the lazy comparisons that Merrick often makes.
I just think that rather than talk about Idi Amin, Pinochet or Jack the Fucking Ripper, just deal with the issue being discussed. Whether Thatcher should have a state funeral has no relevance to the others mentioned.
I find that lazy. Sorry if it has riled you - I agree that you need more patience, however and can let you have some techniques to help with this.
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Vybik Jon
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 19, 2009, 16:23
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Patience and patronisation?
You're a generous man, pooley.
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 20, 2009, 03:25
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Your point really resonates with me. If we wanted to demonise political leaders for all the "relationships", they sought fit to manage...we'd have a very long list of the ones people might object to.
Slight follow-on..
I wouldn't wan't to start another "policy-by-policy" discussion on Thatcher's strategy...but, assuming she wasn't hopelessly insane..do the critics who are very vocal on this board consider that, her strategy was characterised by:
1) She had the country at heart and failed to sell the "masterplan"
2) She did not have the country at heart...but had an other agenda
3) Other forces were at work..or not at work
?
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 20, 2009, 03:34
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yes, because, although not flawless, it is a sound strategy. Tories had/have it..Labour "adopted" it, wholesale..and so without a change to the voting system.."nothing else matters"..
If you have something else to punt..."what is it"? ...and if so, is it part of any currently recognised Political parties manifesto?
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stray
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Edited Aug 20, 2009, 06:08
Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 20, 2009, 06:07
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geoffrey_prime wrote: yes, because, although not flawless, it is a sound strategy.
Okay, I'll bite, could you please explain how Thatcherism is a 'sound strategy' ? Can you break down what Thatcherism actually is, and how we've benefited from its application ?
Can you also tell us where the ideas and policies actually came from ? (hint : not Thatcher herself).
Edit : Actually, Labour have not adopted it wholesale as you describe. No, I'm not a fan of Labour. Just saying is all.
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Merrick
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Re: Stop Thatcher having a state funeral
Aug 20, 2009, 10:32
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pooley wrote: I find the Idi amin Pinochet thing a bit ridiculous.
Indeed. It's a common thing for people to extend a principle to a more extreme example in order to show why the principle is wrong. I'm presuming you're intelligent enough to be able to do such imaginative thinking. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Personally, I find picking out the second paragraph and dismissing it as 'ridiculous' is lazy. Laziness because it goes to no effort to be imaginative, to explain *why* you think that at all, and so serve no purpose other than to thumb your nose and go 'gah!'.
Argue the point, about the point and none of this nonsense.
OK, I'll do that. Oh no, hang on a minute, I'd already written that before the bit you take issue with.
Merrick wrote: Thatcher may go but Thatcherism survives.
Venerating her and what she stood for would make the world a worse place. whereas decrying her and having people be jubilant at her demise and dropping her cadaver down a disused mine shaft would lead to people understanding that there is a widespread hatred of her for what she did and what she stood for.
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