dave clarkson
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 07, 2009, 14:51
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...fair enough and I see your point. However my point was don't you think its weird how one of the persons who supposedly took the carol thatch conversation out of the green room and into the public domain has made a career out of offending people, appearances, sexism, stereotypes etc?
8)
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geoffrey_prime
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 02:31
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I'm sorry I have to disagree, I don't want to shy away from using words because they "could" be linked to words which are offensive to some people/groups today.
I certainly agree that "wog" does not have a place in 2009 English vocabularly ...unless you are wanting to be offensive and therefore clearly it should be condemned.
"Golliwog", however, is a word to describe a character largely associated with childrens fiction...but, as we know, which has also been used as a term of racial abuse.
I believe we should preserve and use the word "Golliwog", in "nomal" parlance..but strictly condemn , when it is used in a racist and offensive way.
However, as I get to the end of writing this, I am wondering whether, people find the Minstral character itself offensive...so maybe my approach will never wash?
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Vybik Jon
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Edited Feb 09, 2009, 10:55
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 10:48
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EDIT
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dee
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 16:12
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geoffrey_prime wrote: I'm sorry I have to disagree, I don't want to shy away from using words because they "could" be linked to words which are offensive to some people/groups today.
I certainly agree that "wog" does not have a place in 2009 English vocabularly ...unless you are wanting to be offensive and therefore clearly it should be condemned.
"Golliwog", however, is a word to describe a character largely associated with childrens fiction...but, as we know, which has also been used as a term of racial abuse.
I believe we should preserve and use the word "Golliwog", in "nomal" parlance..but strictly condemn , when it is used in a racist and offensive way.
However, as I get to the end of writing this, I am wondering whether, people find the Minstral character itself offensive...so maybe my approach will never wash?
I don't agree, golliwog is a racist term, think about it.
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stray
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 16:16
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geoffrey_prime wrote: I am wondering whether, people find the Minstral character itself offensive...so maybe my approach will never wash?
Yep, the minstrel character is offensive, yep it won't wash.
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dee
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 16:21
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Yeah i agree, Just LOOK at a golliwog ffs, they are black and called 'wogs' if that isnt offensive enough! Cant understand why anyone would want to perpetuate such crap.
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pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 16:32
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I had one when I was a kid. Better string me up
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stray
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Edited Feb 09, 2009, 16:39
Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 16:38
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Well hey, my parents bought me one too. I haven't kept it. My grandfather also had an epic collection of Black and White Minstrel records and musical scores the cover images of which would horrify even the most ardent hooded white sheet wearer. No, I didn't string him up.
Don't think anyone here is suggesting stringing people up, great imagery to use there btw. society has improved, we no longer find gollywogs acceptable... er... rejoice! ffs.
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pooley
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 17:56
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stray wrote: Well hey, my parents bought me one too. I haven't kept it. My grandfather also had an epic collection of Black and White Minstrel records and musical scores the cover images of which would horrify even the most ardent hooded white sheet wearer. No, I didn't string him up.
Don't think anyone here is suggesting stringing people up, great imagery to use there btw. society has improved, we no longer find gollywogs acceptable... er... rejoice! ffs.
I was in Australie ten years ago and the Black and White Minstrel show was still going strong - they called it (and this is not a joke) Wogarama.
Jaw dropping? maybe.
I find it hard to be offended by Golliwogs, or by Thatchers comments. FFS.
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shanshee_allures
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Re: Carol Thatch
Feb 09, 2009, 17:57
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The ultimate would be if a whole new generation grew up not even knowing any racist words at all.
Language breeds attitude as much as the other way round I think.
So far my daughter knows none of it, and obviously if it continued for her and her peers that would make for a better place.
We can't unsay things but maybe we can only kill them off by diminishing and demeaning them, somehow.
It'd be good if we could consign some things to history, and learn from it.
I do think however that some (not making any references to anyone here mind) have overstretched the *level* to which they are offended by this whole shebang, which doesn't sit that comfortably with me either.
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