|
U-Know! Forum » drop bombs, not acid.... |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
handofdave 3515 posts |
Oct 24, 2008, 20:10
|
||
|
the dog wrote: That said, I am also a capitaist, or I would not be able to survive living in london So you admit that you rely on capitalism in order to enjoy the fruits of civilization. Why do you live in London if it means you have to be part of a system you abhor?
|
|||
the dog 40 posts |
Oct 24, 2008, 20:34
|
||
Oh yeah, I got a bit carried away with my own rightousness there and forgot to answer your claims on what I had said in rosponse to voting the lesser of two evils.. If you are voting for something that you believe to be the lesser of two evils, then why vote for either? I am puzzled by the statement as surely that means that you are still voting for a type of evil that is less offensive to you. Why not vote for the party or person that does not have these evil tendences? By voting for the lesser of two evils, then surly you are wussing out of the morally correct option of voting for a no evil contender( if there is such a thing) or even abstaining from that sort of choice. If you want to vote, either way, then that is fuck all to do with me, but when the choice is there, and you say that voting for a lesser of two evils is morally the right way to go, then I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that turning a blind eye to whats going on,just to feel better about it all. As I keep saying, my views could be completely wrong, and so might be yours. We have no way of realy knowing, but meanwhile I'll get my high horse, you can mount yours, and we can have handbags at dawn..
|
|||
|
the dog 40 posts |
Edited Oct 24, 2008, 20:50
Oct 24, 2008, 20:48
|
||
|
handofdave wrote: the dog wrote: That said, I am also a capitaist, or I would not be able to survive living in london So you admit that you rely on capitalism in order to enjoy the fruits of civilization. Why do you live in London if it means you have to be part of a system you abhor? I live in london as a means to an end. This is where my working reputation is and where I can afford to spread myself round to work for people who would not be able afford the normal rates of builders. Of course I'm a capitalist, who is not? that is my biggest gripe. We are all capitalists because we are forced to be by our capitalst government. I would love to live in a society that only worked on a barter system, but I do not and never will, because the banks have us all by the ball's, sorry girls, and we as normal human beings are forced to follow the systems rules. However, I believe that there are ways to fuck the system by bending the rules and to work the barter system as much as is possible. I have no answers on how to change the system, only on how not to swallow it hook, line and sinker. Do all you can, whatever you can, whenever you can, and make a difference, nomatter how small that may be..
|
|||
PMM 3155 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 03:00
|
||
|
As I said when I waded in, I was wary about stepping back on this particular roundabout. It does tend to get very personal, and I really don't like bad feeling. I get much inspiration from this site. I read the articles in the U-know section, http://www.headheritage.co.uk/uknow/ and they broaden my knowledge and understanding of the world around me. I read the activism links that people like Stevo and Merrick post, and they strengthen and renew my resolve to keep fighting the good fight. I read posts by people like stray and grufty jim, and can only gaze in envy at their abilies as writers. To find truly inspirational figures, I think you have to look to those that were prepared to step away from the common wisdom. They didn't always have answers, but they generally always questioned. I wonder what Bill Hicks would have made of the current Presidential race. I note that Noam Chomsky categorised the US as a one party state with two vying factions of the same big business party. I think he and his words will live on long after those of most of his contemporaries are forgotten. Perhaps he will be voting Obama as the lesser of two evils, given that he has no other effective option. Who knows? Anyway, as I said, I really don't like disagreeing with you Dave. I think we're both on the side of the angels, even if we don't always agree on everything.
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 05:53
|
||
|
PMM, I just want to say that your contribution is always welcomed... at the end of the day WE ARE all on the same side. There's plenty of room on that side for idealism, for pragmatism, for all the different approaches to the problems of the world. I see our ability to argue and debate and even get a little pissed off as no impediment to our shared goals. This is what freedom of expression is all about... we can disagree on details, but ultimately we're on the same page. The left is ultimately stronger than the right for this reason. We on the left balk at homogenization. We rebel against dogma. We embrace multiple points of view. We cherish intellect. And we reject the one-size-fits-all idea that to be strong we must all tune into the same channel. To use biology as an analogy, we are stronger because we aren't a monoculture. Without idealism, we'd be nowhere. Without pragmatic, strategic action, we'd be nowhere. We all need each other. So don't get bummed out that we spat. This is healthy. That we spar and disagree shouldn't be a problem as long as we respect each other. And I do respect you. In the meantime, I'm going to keep on rooting for Barack Obama to make history as the USA's first minority to take the White House. And then I'll continue to argue for change. Remember, an Obama win isn't the end of the story. It's the beginning of a new one.
|
|||
laresident 861 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 07:28
|
||
Sorry to divert a little but in my youth I went to the Pyrhenees a lot, hiking about by myself. I was very attracted to the idea of dropping out there with some goats. Which part do you go to?
|
|||
|
the dog 40 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 11:58
|
||
|
laresident wrote: Sorry to divert a little but in my youth I went to the Pyrhenees a lot, hiking about by myself. I was very attracted to the idea of dropping out there with some goats. Which part do you go to? My friends are way up in the foothills inbetween Foix and St Girons. there are quite a lot of non french peeps round there trying to eek out an existence as farmers of one sort or another, mostly organic, but that depends on who they are selling thier produce to. The french government claims to back the biologique farmers, but in reality puts so much pressure on them,ie; witholding promised subsidies, until they either go bankrupt or have to go non-biologique to sell thier wares. Fortunately, my friends, who started with nothing 12 years ago, have this year, finally made themselves a profit. They now have thier goats cheese into many local supermarkets and sell at 4 street markets. Lots of very hard work, long hours, 5:30am till 8:pm seven days a week.The location is just heavenly, no light or sound pollution, and the air is fairly clean too.
|
|||
|
the dog 40 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 12:18
|
||
|
handofdave wrote: PMM, I just want to say that your contribution is always welcomed... at the end of the day WE ARE all on the same side. There's plenty of room on that side for idealism, for pragmatism, for all the different approaches to the problems of the world. I see our ability to argue and debate and even get a little pissed off as no impediment to our shared goals. This is what freedom of expression is all about... we can disagree on details, but ultimately we're on the same page. The left is ultimately stronger than the right for this reason. We on the left balk at homogenization. We rebel against dogma. We embrace multiple points of view. We cherish intellect. And we reject the one-size-fits-all idea that to be strong we must all tune into the same channel. To use biology as an analogy, we are stronger because we aren't a monoculture. Without idealism, we'd be nowhere. Without pragmatic, strategic action, we'd be nowhere. We all need each other. So don't get bummed out that we spat. This is healthy. That we spar and disagree shouldn't be a problem as long as we respect each other. And I do respect you. In the meantime, I'm going to keep on rooting for Barack Obama to make history as the USA's first minority to take the White House. And then I'll continue to argue for change. Remember, an Obama win isn't the end of the story. It's the beginning of a new one. I totally agree with your sentiments there. There is nothing like good debate, especially about the worlds pollitical situation. I too am rooting for Obama, as i see him as a much better alternative to the republicans. I still can't see how Bush was allowed to be in power in the first place, let alone two terms of office. When Obama gets in, I just hope he is allowed to implement many of his great idea's. I know I came across as quite vitriolic yesterday, but I do find myself banging me head against the wall when I see what polliticians get away with and the toadying of the media in it's wake. the bartering/trading organisations are growing throughout the world. In the uk there is the LETS system for a start and many more too. I would put thier address pages up but I don't know how to do that yet as I've only had this computer thing for a few weeks and am still learning how to use it, but if you google "lets" or "barter" you can find one near you. All sorts of people offering thier specific skills in return for what they need. It cuts out the need for money to exchange hands and everyone ends up happy, except the banks, hurrah!
|
|||
|
handofdave 3515 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 13:15
|
||
|
Hey, from one hothead to another, it's cool. There used to be something here in the Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts called 'Valley Bucks'. Yes, a local form of currency. I don't think it caught on, but that was probably due to a relatively strong dollar then. Bartering is fine, but of course, it has it's limitations. For small exchanges it works, but some things require larger capital expenditures. For example, if we're going to transition to a post-fossil fuel economy, it's going to take lots of dough to build the wind turbines, solar panels, etc. that will be needed. Not to mention the computers and the internet we're using right now... one of the greatest inventions of our species. The internet is very, very important... it brings the world closer together, it's an incalculable treasure of knowledge sharing. You just can't run the sort of large scale industry needed to accomplish these things through barter. So, Capitalism isn't going anywhere soon. It has it's uses. It does need to be kept on a short leash, though... as we've seen, when you let it run without sufficient controls, it turns into a monster. BTW, to add a link to a post, just go to a page you want to share with us, highlight the page address (at the top of your browser window), copy it, and paste it into a posting here.
|
|||
|
the dog 40 posts |
Oct 25, 2008, 15:01
|
||
okay, thanks for that. heres one of the sites i've been looking at, check it out.http://www.barternews.com/trade_exchanges.htm , and here is one for those in the UK that are interested... http://www.letslinkuk.net/ . the more people that use these sites the better, and hopefully you will find them very helpfull.
|
| Pages: 6 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| U-Know! Forum Index | |
