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U-Know! Forum » January drudion & I've had it with the Drude's xenophobic insinuations |
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:08
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While you seem to be in command of a worthy solar lexicon,it expresses little ability to convey emotion or feeling towards the issue at hand. I'd like to see you go record with how you feel about issues that effect us all.The world is moving on in so many levels. Not everything is O.K. ! Under the guise of 'thats my culture' or otherwise. Communal stoneing! Female emasculation!The ubiquitous Burka!Segregation!Religous persecution!Wholesale De-forestation!Institutionalized poverty! How is it that the planet can not even agree to a standard voltage,let alone how to produce said voltage. Ever notice that most conversations regarding anything important almost allways take a tangent, Religous conviction vs. real world problems.As far as i know we have not had so much as a telephone call from any deity in a very long time. We are on our own here. Progress{whatever that is anymore} is going to have it's price.A pretty good start is what john wrote in the song imagine.He was a protester too.
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Bonzo the Cat 138 posts |
Edited Jan 07, 2008, 15:21
Jan 07, 2008, 15:14
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Eh - yes... I don't see where we differ in opinion? You indeed put forth as I say, that one should not look at "a culture", but at several reprobable acts, such as stoneing etc. I also agree with protest, but I hope you don't expect me to endorse protest that takes its protest as an excuse to judge an entire culture as a whole? I may be misreading you dodge, but if I understand your first words, you accuse me of being cerebral to the issue rather than being emotional? The thing is, I believe in emotions, but not as the basis of moral superiority or discussion altogether. I mean, the "others" also "feel" very strongly about these issues (remember lynching mob for the Mohammed teddy bear?) - but does that make them right? If the only reason you can find to be in favour or against something is how it "makes you feel", you might turn one way or the other. Reason gives the cause, emotion makes you support it. What do you think?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:25
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Lord Lucan wrote: And I agree with Bonzo in that it also looked very much to me that Cope was using this as an example to support his well-documented position on Islam. And he may well accuse us of hiding behind 'political correctness' again, when actually we're seeing more of the wider reality behind this than how it helps us grind a particular political axe. Indeed. I wish I had been as succinct!
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:28
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I don't believe that Julian has gone on record condemning middle eastern society on the whole. He has seen fit to put up front a specific issue.I won't deign to speak on his behalf. In the u.s it's unlikely to see such an issue through the media resources.As such i can appreciate his candor and in your face style of expressing issue's as such.No offence, but i pick my battles differently. JULIAN will have to rebuttal this,not me.
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Bonzo the Cat 138 posts |
Edited Jan 07, 2008, 15:39
Jan 07, 2008, 15:38
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I agree with you on the "in your face" issue dodge, but you can be in your face and correct. So I have to disagree with you where you say you fail to see Julian's tendency to pick specifically on islam, or in any case on societies as a whole (what does "that kind of society" mean otherwise?). In any case, I've not half as often seen him make a case for economic factors. The possibility that this is because he thinks it "less rock n roll" worries me profoundly. Though as you say, only Julian knows, and I for one would be glad to read an in your face comment that not only rings true, but is true. Anyway, I think Lord Lucan made a good point in a much more direct way than I am capable of.
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shanshee_allures 2563 posts |
Edited Jan 07, 2008, 15:41
Jan 07, 2008, 15:40
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Bonzo the Cat wrote: I'll say more: even though I am probably one of the most anti-religious people I know, I'm still not sure whether that does me any real good. I mean, if religion didn't "work" on some level, people would have stopped believing long ago. The thought of my daughter being forced through societal expectations to wear a veil, or marry who she's told to makes me feel sick, so I feel sick for all the pooor girls and women who are to do so too (else they might become pariahs or dead). The thought of my nephews (I don't have a son) todger being adapted as a babe through some religious requirement makes me sick too. Now if a woman matures enough to make the choice of wearing a veil or to ask her dad to pick her husband, and a man decides when he's old enough to go for circumcision, then up to them. The fact this happens to young girls too (without any anaesthetic as if it wasn't bad enough!) is heartbreaking. Dawkins cites that sort of thing as child abuse - and he's right. **BTW I'm not strictly a Dawkins groupie, I just happen to find alot of what he says I've always felt too.** There are tons more of course. Point is, as soon as you criticise a religion en mass you are accused of racism. Why? Obviously the a-holes of this world can't separate the two, and will call Sikhs and Hindus 'Muslims' just for conveniece. I detest and feel opposed to many of the enforced culutural trappings of religion. If they happen in Afghanistan, or Iraq or Africa, does that mean I hate Afghanis,Iraqis, or Africans? Eh, no. Those are simply human beings, some will be good, some will be gits, and if you don't care to separate that from what they have been 'labelled' then that's the worst sort of ism there is (bugger knows what to call it though!) I have C of E on my birht certificate. Why? Sez fucking who? We never ever went to church! Thankfully, that is no longer a requirement, but decades back you were required to culturally label your kid soon as they were born. So I'm afraid religion sucks eggs all round - and the reason 'we' haven't learned to live without it is, eh, power, fear, etc etc. Rant done. x
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jan 07, 2008, 16:02
Jan 07, 2008, 15:41
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I don't think anyone in their right mind would think of JC as a racist. The problem is when we identify migrants (the individuals rather than the statistical mass) as being very specifically representative of the politcal and social culture of their place of origin and that those individuals are in some way fated to be carriers of an undesirable behavoural sickness that weakens the body politic. I can't see it myself and, as I note above, if we can't absorb the good and reject the bad (ideas not people) from the flood of new notions that comes with successive waves of immigration (as we have for centuries) then the British body politic is simply too unhealthy to maintain itself in its current form. That's a much more worrying idea than what Bill Hicks describes as the phantom threat of a "brown Islamic tide".
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:42
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It's definitely time for some other topic to emerge in the addresses besides immigration paranoia. By returning to it over and over every month, it does send sketchy signals about where the drude's head is at.
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:42
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Reply to:If the only reason you can find to be in favour or against something is how it "makes you feel", you might turn one way or the other. Reason gives the cause, emotion makes you support it. What do you think? Reason gave rise to many noble things, as well as nuclear weapons and all manner of horrors. Emotions give rise to outpourings of charity to the world over. Are you going to listen to reason or your heartstrings in matters where personal sacrifice are involved? By the By: i'll stand with the best of em as far as making the right choices go. I will not stand for violence.
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Bonzo the Cat 138 posts |
Jan 07, 2008, 15:47
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dodge one wrote: Reply to:If the only reason you can find to be in favour or against something is how it "makes you feel", you might turn one way or the other. Reason gives the cause, emotion makes you support it. What do you think? Reason gave rise to many noble things, as well as nuclear weapons and all manner of horrors. Emotions give rise to outpourings of charity to the world over. Are you going to listen to reason or your heartstrings in matters where personal sacrifice are involved? By the By: i'll stand with the best of em as far as making the right choices go. I will not stand for violence. Hm yes, but emotions also gave rise to lynching blacks on the banks of the mississippi. But I guess you're right, one probably needs a balance of the two as reason alone will not always get you there. Or you'll end up a Volcan.
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