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U-Know! Forum » January drudion & I've had it with the Drude's xenophobic insinuations |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jan 11, 2008, 16:05
Jan 11, 2008, 14:46
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Blood runs hot whenever this subject comes up and the more your own kith and kin are here as a result of recent waves of immigration (certainly post Viking but more likely 19th & 20th century post famine / pogrom / fascism / empire etc etc) then the hotter it will run. I suspect Mozza likes to time his little social commentary explosions for strategic moments when he needs a little profile lift. No fool he. JC just seems to let it all hang out so we should all reserve the right to let ours all hang out as well, no? If we all decided to cut each other some slack on this one would that be a too wooly and bourgeois liberal an idea? ;-)
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cHARLIE 2607 posts |
Jan 11, 2008, 16:06
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Mole wrote: You are in no position to condem or criticise the middle east for their culture or way of life however extreme it may appear to you. The above blurb is what made me angry. Mole! Julian is in a rather good position me thinks & I agree with him 100%. Children should never be made to be sexual slaves and this (in my view) should be condemed! Julian is a cool forward thinking mother fucker . Mole is not. Rant over.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 11, 2008, 17:04
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Cultural understanding doesn't have to mean that one silences oneself when confronted with human bondage. There is still slavery practiced in the world. That doesn't qualify as a 'custom'. It's slavery, plain and simple. This attitude that one must respect (or ignore) abuse out of some misplaced notion of 'tolerance' just doesn't wash. And I don't mean that this is a justification for war! But if one is going to say that everything goes in the name of 'cultural respect', then we might as well close up the Human Rights organizations, might as well sign off on the victims of the world (the mass killings in Sudan? Just a 'cultural' thing? I think not) Most important is that a culture be able to openly examine it's OWN abuses and deal with them. Of course, this is the problem with parts of the world where human rights are not respected: There is a symbiotic failure of that culture to discard it's self serving dogma, recognize its own hypocrisy, and correct it's wrongs. The old Jim Crow laws in the US weren't defeated because the Northern States decided to 'respect' that odious element of southern culture. It was defeated because people made some noise and took action, and rightfully so.
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dodge one 1242 posts |
Jan 11, 2008, 19:16
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Well said Dave,So much could be added also; Poison gassing of Kurdish{Minority's?} people's, As memory serves the Hmong {Minority's?} people got served the same. What a convienent term, minority...hmmm.American Indians took a hosing too..But bless em, there gettin there revenge a nickel a pull.From what i've seen just recently here at h2h it's very easy to stab out at 1 percieved culpable nation, especially from the safety of a "Nuetral" nation. America sure has got it's share of foibles, But there are plenty of people here with there hearts in the right place. Last election 250,000 protested in a peacefull demonstration in downtown N.Y.C.,I was there. Whashington park, Albany N.Y. Early 2002 protesting the developing invasion of Iraq, I was there. 1980-1984 I served in the U.S. Navy, Now there's a juxtaposition.The armed services have also been on the front lines for decades to keep the peace between north and south Korea, Not to mention interceeding on Kuwaits behalf. It's a carefull balance using such power responsibly. I guess i'm just goin on here. My point is that something has to be done about lots of things. Most nations, i suppose do care but what are they willing to do? When i here about whole tribes in africa slaughtering each other with machetes down to the last women and child part of me feels sick and another part enraged. Is the U.S. culpable for not interceeding there? Perhaps a good mission for a Nuetral Nation..At any rate the future for us all is gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride.Changes are allways gonna piss off someone.
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postyesterdayman 931 posts |
Jan 12, 2008, 17:08
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I don't think he is being vague or obtuse at all: it's quite clear he does not like in any way the traditions and 'policies' of Muslim society. And he doesn't have to. We have this PC 'respect everyone and don't judge or form opinions' bullshit shoved down our throat so fucking much that we forget that it's perfectly normal, let alone acceptable, to be horrified and enraged about terrible abuses to woman and crude, barbaric killings of condemned individuals! Fuck them, I don't get it and I don't like it and I don't care who knows it or furthermore who might have a problem with it. I understand what you mean about him clearly defining things...yes, he needs to clarify but, in my opinion, for different reasons than as to not offend. Face it, westerners concerned with being accepting and worldly and progressive are the only ones who are going to be offended...no one in the discussed countries are going to be reading the Address Drudion!
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Bonzo the Cat 138 posts |
Jan 12, 2008, 17:33
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Ok, I've replied to this at various points in this thread, but I guess it doesn't hurt to repeat myself... postyesterdayman wrote: I don't think he is being vague or obtuse at all: it's quite clear he does not like in any way the traditions and 'policies' of Muslim society. And he doesn't have to. We have this PC 'respect everyone and don't judge or form opinions' bullshit shoved down our throat so fucking much that we forget that it's perfectly normal, let alone acceptable, to be horrified and enraged about terrible abuses to woman and crude, barbaric killings of condemned individuals! Fuck them, I don't get it and I don't like it and I don't care who knows it or furthermore who might have a problem with it. I don't accept anything, and certainly not for the sake of PC. What I will *not* accept is generalisations that don't look beyond race and culture. As Lord Lucan stated somewhere, the essence is that the issue is not related to any specific culture or religion, but poverty-driven. In other words, the probem I have is not so much that it offends, but that it completely misrepresents the problem in order that he might grind his axe, i.e. muslims suck. postyesterdayman wrote: I understand what you mean about him clearly defining things...yes, he needs to clarify but, in my opinion, for different reasons than as to not offend. Face it, westerners concerned with being accepting and worldly and progressive are the only ones who are going to be offended...no one in the discussed countries are going to be reading the Address Drudion Absolutely, I don't care about whether it's offending or not, but as I stated above, if JC needs xenophobic slogans to be offending there's something wrong.
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mole 210 posts |
Jan 12, 2008, 18:25
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cHARLIE wrote: Mole wrote: You are in no position to condem or criticise the middle east for their culture or way of life however extreme it may appear to you. The above blurb is what made me angry. Mole! Julian is in a rather good position me thinks & I agree with him 100%. Children should never be made to be sexual slaves and this (in my view) should be condemed! Julian is a cool forward thinking mother fucker . Mole is not. Rant over. It was'nt so long ago that the same thing happened in this country Life expectancy was low and childhood ended at a very young age not because of some morral desscretion but because it was pratical. The monarchy was full of child brides / grooms The victorians revelled in child prostitution / slavery So who the fuck are we to take the moral high ground on what we consider to be wrong. Now I'n not saying the above is excuseable, but just because here in the west lifestyles and hence cultures have changed we should not cast moral judgement on others. You must evaluate all the facts and before you ask I think all child abusers should be exicuted but the circumstances and the enviroment is completly diferent Julain has some valid points but you should from your own opinions not follow someone else Think for your self And why the hostility
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jan 12, 2008, 19:03
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Excuse me, but how does "So who the fuck are we to take the moral high ground on what we consider to be wrong" fit in with "I think all child abusers should be exicuted" ?
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IanB 6761 posts |
Jan 14, 2008, 10:13
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My point was not to cut child abusers (or any other breed of abuser) any slack (!) but to suggest that we grant each other on this board a bit more latitude to make a point. Message boards are a crappy forum to conduct a debate of any seriousness. I suspect most everyone here has more in common than the tone of some message would imply.
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cHARLIE 2607 posts |
Jan 14, 2008, 10:37
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Indeed! Well said Dave! 8O)
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