white sage
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Monbiot - a real head
Jun 17, 2007, 10:09
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Always a levelled point of view from this chap if you're after news, a true head.
www.monbiot.com
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NyghtOwl
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jun 18, 2007, 22:27
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The guy is a fucking genius
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ron
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jun 25, 2007, 14:50
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indeed, however never have figured out wot the 'proper' pronunciation of his last name is...
thot perhaps i should/might ask the BAE blokes across the river, but figured/ considered that they are even more well armed and better financed than i...
x
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anthonyqkiernan
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jun 25, 2007, 15:00
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MON-BEE-OH
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ron
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jun 26, 2007, 21:27
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cheers for that! now i doubt i can resist the temptation to poke them with that bit of stick...
i'm sure the "other" guys coulda helped as they are so responsible and awl that...
http://www.baesystems.com/CorporateResponsibility/
rubs chin and wonders.... if eliminating as many humans as possible removes any current and/or future environmental impacts...
or if this is just greenwash....
i'm sure they know whom george is...
and george knows whom they are....
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2006/08/24/peace-is-for-wimps/
uknow...
x
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PMM
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jun 30, 2007, 23:17
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He's not immune from using language to suit his arguments though.
Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of time for George Monbiot, but he does have axes to grind.
Here's an example.
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/06/19/not-what-it-says-on-the-tin/
This article denigrates baby milk manufacturers (mostly correctly) but includes the statement
"A poll by Mori for the National Childbirth Trust found that around a third of women had received the impression that infant formula was “as good as” or “better than” breastmilk"
the implication being that a third of women believed that infant formula was as good as breastmilk.
Yet isn't this treating us, and particularly women as idiots?
Just because 1/3rd of women had recieved the impression implanted from capitalist interests, this doesn't mean that 1/3rd of women believe that infant formula is as good as breastmilk.
Bad choice of language? or a deliberate misuse of statistics?
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Merrick
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jul 01, 2007, 01:30
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I get the feeling that I'm not quite understadning your point.
PMM wrote: Yet isn't this treating us, and particularly women as idiots?
No, it's treating a third of women as if they bellieve something that isn't actually true.
That leaves two thirds untouched. And as for the one-thrid, it says that they have belived something that has been told to them repeatedly by apparently knowledgable people. Which is very different to saying they're idiots.
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PMM
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jul 01, 2007, 02:24
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Sorry Merrick. I could probably have explained myself better.
Company X says "Our cornflakes give you more energy until dinnertime"
- A survey shows that "77.7777772% of breakfast eaters recieved the impression that Company X's cornflakes give you more energy until dinnertime"
is not the same as - a survey shows that 77.7777772% of breakfast eaters believe that Company X's cornflakes give you more energy until dinnertime
I believe that GM is well capable of understanding the difference, and that his choice of words either due to a lack of care, deliberate or subconscious manipulation of language, or a lack of attention to detail.
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Merrick
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jul 03, 2007, 03:20
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Going and looking at the piece, and the sources he's referencing, I don't think it's unfairly used.
"A survey by the Department of Health found that a fifth of women under 24 thought that breast feeding would ruin their bodies. Women greatly overestimated the difficulties of producing milk. But perhaps most significantly, 34% believe that infant formula milks are “very similar” or “the same” as breastmilk(6). A poll by Mori for the National Childbirth Trust found that around a third of women had received the impression that infant formula was “as good as” or “better than” breastmilk(7)"
The first bits - ruination of bodies, difficulties, verysimilar/thesame - are about what people themselves believe.
the Mori poll is about the received impression (the poll asks about the impression given by advertising, not personal beliefs).
As Monbiot's piece is about how advertisiing misleads and the way that leads to false beleifs, I think it's fairly put.
If he'd said that the Mori poll was about their beliefs he'd be wrong. Likewise, if he'd taken that on its own and extrapolated it to be a measure of beliefs he'd be wrong.
It's not implying that people are any more stupid than they really are; the 'impression' poll concernes a third of women, precisely the same proportion in the government poll who *do* think infant formula's as good as breast milk.
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PMM
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Re: Monbiot - a real head
Jul 03, 2007, 11:34
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I was in drunk and pedantic mode the other night when I posted this.
I recieved the impression that he was manipulating language to suit his aims. This isn't the same as believing he was doing this :o)
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