PlateOfFood
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:31
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Here's my paranoid view on it -
The labour Govt clearly made up their minds to introduce compulsory cards some time ago, but they've kept changing their justification for doing so every time their current 'reason' failed to stand up to scrutiny. The last time they were behaving like this was before the Iraq war - we still don't know why they went into that.
This just makes me uneasy. They are spending a lot of political capital on something thats as obviously flawed as the Millenium Dome. They must have a reason for doing this, and one they won't admit.
I do wonder if it is part of a long term plan to introduce personal carbon quotas (which I am all for). Or perhaps they fear climate change producing an influx of immigrants from more Southerly climes? I don't know. I obviously don't trust them, because they are habitual liars. It may well be that there is a good reason for introducing these cards, but until I am given a reason that makes sense I am very suspicious.
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Vybik Jon
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:32
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"The most cctv'd nation in eutope? so what, If i was mugged, or attacked, or in any way a victim of crime I'd be delighted that there was cctv footage to help convict the bastards. As for the rest, important but not relevant to id cards."
I never said that there weren't any positive uses to cctv. The point was that the rampant spread of cctv has happened without any consulatation with people of this country and is another example of the non-accountability of UK government. On the same basis, I think the "rest" is relevant to id cards because they're all examples of bad government in the UK and I am not easy with the power the id cards would give to a proven bad government.
"Why? what do you do that's so interesting to them?"
How do I know? My previous ‘political’ activities are already a matter of record with government agencies. Depending on how the world develops over the next 15-20 years (fundamentalism, nationalism, oil stocks depletion, environmental damage, water shortages, over population, perpetual war - not a healthy future), I could be one of thousands of undesirable, potentially ‘difficult’ people in this country.
"They may help to stop fraud, and they may help to stop terrorism, they certainly won't make it any worse."
Again, there may be advantages in combating crime, fraud and terrorism, but even the government have said that id cards would be only one weapon in those fights. It’s a big step to take just to have one more weapon. And as others have pointed out in this thread, equivalent forms of identity proof already exist (or soon will) and have been successfully copied. The same would happen with id cards. Foe me, the complete surrender of my privacy is too big a sacrifice for limited effect.
"And what if the government was desperate to force a better health service, or a ban on hunting, or deseperate to de criminalise certain low grade drugs. would we wnat to stop that just becuase a government is keen to get it through? I can't see that a government wanting it makes it bad."
The government do force things through, as previous governments have done. I’m pretty sure they will force this through too. The examples you give have an end result that can be understood, if not agreed with. I don’t believe we’ve been told why they so desperately want id cards and I’m very suspicious.
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embryonomore
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:37
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I get the sneaking suspicion that he pretends to read the Mail.
I'd even go so far as to say he gets a low-grade buzz from doing so in public.
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jason lives
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:41
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fair enough. Some very good points, and well argued. I'm still of the same mind though. Stubborn git aint I?
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Rolling Ronnie
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:43
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Are you sure you're not a New Labour politician?
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jason lives
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:43
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Mad and need locking up was a bit of a joke, as I'm sure you know.
I hid the daily mail inside dirty mags and wank off to it on the tube.
Surely you've seen me???
I don't read the daily mail, ever.
Not minding ID cards doesn't make me a rabid right wing zealot any more than not wanting them makes you a veggie burger eating, smelly, boring hippy.
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jason lives
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:44
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I refer the gentleman to my previous answer
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Vybik Jon
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 15:45
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I was pretty sure early on in this thread that you and I wouldn't see eye-to-eye on this one, jl. But for me, that's a huge part of U-Know! Raise the issue, argue and debate, see where it goes.
We'll agree to differ.
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Cleira
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 16:31
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Do we yet know what happens if you don't have one when you are supposed to? I know we are still a long way from this, but its just a question of time before we will be required to have one.
I know in Belgium you are required to carry you with you at all times.
Will refusing to have one be an option?
Just seems to me that its getting more and more difficult to opt out of this modern life.
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PlateOfFood
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Re: ID cards
Feb 15, 2006, 17:32
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I don't think there's any doubt - should carrying them become compulsory - that you would be nicked if you didn't produce your card upon demand, is there? Say if you were on a demo or protest or something and were asked for the card by a policeman.
Otherwise there's no point in making them compulsory.
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