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jshell 333 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 18:58
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That may well be true, but it's the latter part of the story. If it wasn't for Russia being unable to keep up with American spending in the arms race, then there wouldn't have been the collapse that there was. Old Ronnie was quie shrewd and basically used his spending power to bankrupt the Commies, thereby soundly beating them without firing a shot. Now, I'm not altogether sure that was a good thing, but it liberated a few countries from the scourge of Communism and its: 'we're all equal, but some are more equal than others' doctrine.
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Genereth 33 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 19:02
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Ahh ... does that mean that you (like ronnie and maggie) claim that the responsability for the downfall of the eastern block was pure economics and pressure from wealthier western alliances and not due to people power within communist countries and ordinary people saying we have had enough?
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jshell 333 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 19:11
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Not really, and I'm no fan of either Maggie or Ronnie. I think both played their parts, but given the nature of the hard-line Russians (I truly don't believe we're all the same beneath the skin - or wired up the same), I think that without the economic forces, the Russians would have smashed the rebelling countries physically, like the Chinese at Tianamen (spelling?) Or if they couldn't, then they would have had more than one Chechen situation on their hands.
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Genereth 33 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 19:21
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Yes indeed. But one thorn in the side of America, when it confidently talks about the fall of communism - is little old Cuba. Its been under an American trade imbargo for years but its still there, dancin' away, smokin' on a fat cigar, drinkin' rum and shakin' its ass at the mighty USA! god bless em.
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jshell 333 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 19:28
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Can't fault you there, would love to visit Cuba. Some of my colleagues have and reports are damned good!
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Genereth 33 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 19:43
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I remember talking to my mum about the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, still probably the closest we have (knowingly) come to all out nuclear war - she said it was very scary. The world held its breath and for a couple of weeks people did not know if it was worth planning a holiday, mortgage, wedding or any kind of future. CND was big in those days - no wonder.
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jshell 333 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 20:00
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That was a very scary time, though before my time. Read about it and then tell me that a rich country today without nukes is safe. The only thing that stopped the Russians was Kennedy playing hard-ball and standing up to the Russians who knew it was a lose/lose situation. People who only know force, only understand force, and the Russians ain't Mr nice-guy - a fact borne out by the systematic gang-rape of the female population of Berlin in 1945 through to letting their sailors needlessly die in the Kursk submarine a few years ago.
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Genereth 33 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 20:18
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I worked with Russians at sea a few years back. Bloody nice bunch of people I have to tell you. However... they have this hard nosed authority thing. People with a bit of power throw their weight around like a bunch of nasty little commisars and everyone else has to do what they say ...or else. But generally they were great fun, friendly, hospitable and generous (even thogh they were getting paid about $200 a month - a fairly good wage by their standards). Of course bribary was everywhere, if you wanted anything done you needed to supply copious ammounts of vodka. But getting pissed with Russians is great fun!
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jshell 333 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 20:32
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Sounds like a good buch of guys to hang out with. I used to work on dive-boats and the saturation divers are mad buggers on a night out too. Your Russians were possibly agreeable coz they'd seen some of the world - can't imagine them being hard-line commies...!?
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Genereth 33 posts |
Jan 17, 2006, 20:57
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No they weren't, they hated communism, and Russia was still a place to get away from. We had one guy, a fire warden jump ship in Dunkirk.
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