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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Yorkshire wolds |
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Jan 06, 2003, 21:44
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There's some interesting stuff going on there, check out the ridges to the right of this picture, and the dark bits in the middle. http://uk.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&x=485763&y=455776&scale=10000&width=700&height=410&gride=483000&gridn=455500&rt=overlay.htm The best published stuff for the area is to do with the Iron Age burials, particularly the chariot burials, which Ian Stead is the best published, mostly in archaeology journals. The dikes in the region have mostly been ascribed as boundaries, either tribal or ritual (since some are associated with barrows and pit alignments. Almost none have been dated, although some of the northern earthworks seem to have had several phases of operation, dating from the Bronze to the medievil periods. Very few of the southern dykes seem to have been published, but I have yet to get my hands on the Scarborough Archy Socs survey of the moors, which may include these southern chaps. One of the reasons for so many earthworks is the apparent arrival of the Parisii into the Wolds in the earlyish Iron Age. A further reason may have been the unrest in the later Iron Age as the Romans advanced into Brigantia. Many of these dykes are really big, which indicates if they were tribal boundaries, the tribes weren't too friendly, on the other hand they rarely connect up into a recogniseable defensible area, however, very few have been surveyed, as the Cleave dyke system up at Roulston has, this has been shown to have been completely flattened by agriculture for a significant part of it's original length.
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Jan 06, 2003, 22:59
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So the theories we've got so far are- 1. Defensive 2. Drainage dykes 3. Boundaries 4. Cattle ranching Looking back on that posting about the cattle, that's my favourite so far, but hey, I thought they might be modern pipe trenches - so what do I know ;-) -Chris
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Jan 07, 2003, 10:29
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How about all four? As you say some are pretty small, yet others are massive and definately overkill compared to a wooden stockade. odd that no one subsequetly used earthworks to make huge animal enclosures though. The one pictured is similar (two banks one ditch) to the Double Dykes at Studfold
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Jan 07, 2003, 11:30
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> How about all four? Could be... It's tempting of course to attribute the same use to all of them, but theres no reason why they weren't used for various purposes at different times and maybe modified by differnt people. > odd that no one subsequetly used earthworks to make huge animal enclosures though. hmmm.. do we know that they didn't? I know of barrows that were fenced and used as stock pens up until fairly recently. >The one pictured is similar (two banks one ditch) to the Double Dykes at Studfold That's the only one I've seen in that area and the dimensions match those in the final paragraph of the cattle ranching article, hence my favouring that theory, but as you say-could be all of the above. -Chris
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Jan 07, 2003, 23:10
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There's always ritual :) having spent a little time with Fitz up there looking at Scameridge they could have been anything - it's difficult to see the woods from the trees. I agree with your general feel of this one, in that it seems to be more of a boundary than anything else (and could have been used to retain animals). However the double wall troubles me, since it's OTT for animals and I think earthen walls (don't know if these were) would collapse and be easy for animals to climb when the sides were not so sheer. Compared to thorn hedges and wooden fences this seems to be a lot of work for a simple job like that. Next we come to tribal boundaries, which I think could be split into two types - defensive boundaries thrown up to isolate two unhappy clans, and symbolic boundaries, separating an area for a non defensive purpose. Which is the most common explaination of the dykes in the moors, since many are built in locations where they seem unwarranted - often of a construction which defies simple explanation (four or five rows of banks and dirches). Ideally I would like to try and isloate each different type of earthwork and colour them differently on a map depending on type, date, etc. See if I can cut through the fog that way.
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Jan 09, 2003, 19:26
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The double earth bank confuses me as well (but I’m easily confused anyway), a ditch, bank and wooden fence on the top I can understand and would make a fairly good stock enclosure, but why have another bank? What swung me in favour of the idea was the general dimensions in the ranching article but re-reading it, it says that these structures only exist as crop marks and obviously there’s lots of ‘our’ earthworks still littered around. The non defensive boundary sounds pretty good though… are we talking Iron Age? >Ideally I would like to try and isolate each different type of earthwork and colour them differently on a map depending on type, date, etc Well good look with that one !! I wouldn’t mind going up and having another look myself, but as I couldn’t figure out what they were the first time round I’m not sure if theres much point ;-) -Chris
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Chris Collyer 849 posts |
Jan 09, 2003, 19:38
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>I don't suppose you can recommend any books, I really nowt at all about earthworks Well as is obvious from the rest of the thread -neither do I ;-) Don't know about any 'earthwork' specific books either. The best sources of information about the area will probably be in the archives of the local archaeology groups. A bit of digging around on the internet might turn up some names and addresses. -Chris
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Jan 09, 2003, 20:15
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For that area, your best bet is to get down to Hull Library and museum, you'll probably find a Roman/Celtic bias to what's around
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BrigantesNation 1733 posts |
Jan 09, 2003, 20:19
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It's really difficult to date a particular one, the dates of those few that have been looked at vary widely and largely still remain uncertain. I would guess and say many originate from the Iron or even the Bronze Age. Where are you based Chris? I'm close to Leyburn, N. Yorks.
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cookie 77 posts |
Jan 10, 2003, 15:30
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But watch out for the farmers. I was up there a couple of months ago and a guy sped of in his Landover from the other side of the dyke, and appeared after a 15 min frantic drive to get round and gave us a lot of hassle, apparently we'd, um, strayed a little too close to his pheasant pens. I was also told by someone to watch out for the animal traps up there, as they can be a bit dangerous unless, er, deactivated. But watch out for the farmers. I was up there a couple of months ago and a guy sped of in his Landover from the other side of the dyke, and appeared after a 15 min frantic drive to get round and gave us a lot of hassle, apparently we'd, um, strayed a little too close to his pheasant pens. I was also told by someone to watch out for the animal traps up there, as they can be a bit dangerous unless, er, deactivated. There was some pretty bad dumping of toxic agricultural waste in the area to, tins of dodgy stuff in lay-bys etc.
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