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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Uffington White Horse » uffington horse and the sun |
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 17:20
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There has to be some limit , otherwise the world is your oyster , and you can come up with support for any subjective fantasy that you fancy and will never be able to prove it , because it is unfalsifiable . In the case of a stone row the limits are obvious .
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 19:29
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It's hardly the same thing really. You can only see the horse at all from some directions, and it only looks like a horse from even less directions. Surely a massive great big chalk horse carved on a hill is meant to be viewed, not be a viewpoint? You can't say that at all about a single stone which can be viewed from any angle you want and lined up with anything else you can see.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Edited Aug 18, 2017, 19:52
Aug 18, 2017, 19:46
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Whichever way you look at it , from a distance or along the direction it is "galloping " , it is not facing West , and the direction it is facing is one where the sun will never be seen to set . And you still have the problem that there is nothing to suggest that the point that you have chosen to observe from is the "correct " one or simply one of many that suits an agenda .
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 20:09
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tiompan wrote: the direction it is facing is one where the sun will never be seen to set It's also pointing upwards, which rules out the ground and the horizon as points of interest! ;)
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 20:23
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nigelswift wrote: tiompan wrote: the direction it is facing is one where the sun will never be seen to set It's also pointing upwards, which rules out the ground and the horizon as points of interest! ;) And in the direction of Uffington Castle and and BA round Barrow . It can be seen for miles , tjj saw it from the Swindon train , the Coxwells 4.5 miles away are considered to be good viewpoints .The area from which it can be seen will probably be much greater than that for your average standing stone .
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 20:23
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I've said plenty of times in this thread and the previous comments that there's nothing whatever to prove a link between the horse and the sun, so no agenda here. My argument with your argument (!) is that it seems - to me anyway - to be based wholly on precise alignments and orientation viewed scientifically, with your knowledge of the movement of the sun to the fore in your thinking. My perception of this discussion is that you're considering the horse as a statically aligned object, in a fixed position and orientation. Whereas I think there is scope to consider the artistic intention more. In any well-realised depiction of a person or animal running, your eye is always going to be drawn to the place that its motion is taking it, and where it is going to go next. You aren't going to view it as running on the spot, fixed in place, or the artist has failed to convey forward motion properly. In this case, the horse is running to the right, along the side of the hill. The horse itself is broadly aligned to the SSW above the manger, but the hill that it's running along is actually generally aligned much more the SW (in fact it turns WSW) and this is the general direction the horse is galloping along as it rounds the contour. Anyone running along the hill in the same direction as the horse would follow the crest to the SW as it contours round the manger. And it's probable (not factual and not proven, but probable) that the horse has been designed to be seen from a distance, and that you can only see it properly if you are looking at the hill from the vale. And for anyone viewing the horse from a position where its horsiness can actually be seen, the sunset will be to their right. You can state factually that the horse isn't aligned on the sunset, I don't dispute that in the slightest. But I would argue that it can still be interpreted as running towards the sunset as it follows the hillside along. That doesn't make it a sun monument, or create a provable link between horse and sun. But I think it is too narrow an interpretation to ignore the artistic intention of forward motion and view the horse and its direction purely in terms of angles and alignments.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 20:50
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There is no precision required , the problems are obvious and gross . The author suggests that the horse appears to be moving to the west ,a quick look at his plans , with no need for a measure shows this to be wrong . No science required , if he hadn't raised the nasty angles and alignments argument by mentioning west in the first place the refutation would never had been needed . It is a static object , with a fixed orientation , that is a given, as the other Aubrey B said "Surely it is not my fault that they fall into certain lines and angles " , but if you do imagine where it might be moving to and you know the area you will know that it galloping towards Uffington Castle and the round barrow ,you would also know that it is not running towards any sunset , it is actually avoiding them all . Surely it's horsiness can be seen from around this area http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1015913 the sunset will not be on your right then , but sunrise will and that is how the sun horsey types work , everything with a direction and a head fits into their schema even if it the right or the left is towards areas where the sun doesn't rise or set .
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 20:57
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tiompan wrote: There is no precision required , the problems are obvious and gross . The author suggests that the horse appears to be moving to the west ,a quick look at his plans , with no need for a measure shows this to be wrong . No science required , if he hadn't raised the nasty angles and alignments argument by mentioning west in the first place the refutation would never had been needed . It is a static object , with a fixed orientation , that is a given, as the other Aubrey B said "Surely it is not my fault that they fall into certain lines and angles " , but if you do imagine where it might be moving to and you know the area you will know that it galloping towards Uffington Castle and the round barrow ,you would also know that it is not running towards any sunset , it is actually avoiding them all . Surely it's horsiness can be seen from around this area http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1015913 the sunset will not be on your right then , but sunrise will and that is how the sun horsey types work , everything with a direction and a head fits into their schema even if it the right or the left is towards areas where the sun doesn't rise or set . Come to think of it ,if you are on the train which runs roughly east to west and you can see the Horse as June did then your right is facing north or south depending on direction travel , somewhere the sun never sets or rises .
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 21:01
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tiompan wrote: It is a static object , with a fixed orientation , that is a given A galloping horse is anything but a static object! It's art. I doubt the artist was trying to give the impression of a static object going nowhere, and to this viewer at least it flows and gallops in fluid lines of forward motion. But clearly that's not in the eye of every beholder. tiompan wrote: Surely it's horsiness can be seen from around this area http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1015913 No, not at all. Not even in the picture that came up from the link. From there it looks like a bunch of lines (and a dot). It only looks like a horse when viewed from a distance.
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thesweetcheat 6214 posts |
Aug 18, 2017, 21:03
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tiompan wrote: Come to think of it ,if you are on the train which runs roughly east to west and you can see the Horse as June did then your right is facing north or south depending on direction travel , somewhere the sun never sets or rises . Ha. You can't see the horse from the train unless you turn your head and look out of the window, it's not on the back of the seat in front of you.
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