|
The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Stonehenge Y&Z holes evidence of farming calendar |
Log In to post a reply
|
|
|
|
| Topic View: Flat | Threaded | |
|
Dave1982 83 posts |
Nov 26, 2014, 20:15
|
||
|
Stonehenge Y and Z holes - evidence of farming calendar ? The Y and Z holes consist of two arcs that encircle the Sarsen stone structure. The Eastern facing arc follows the progression of the sunrises. The centre of radius of the Eastern facing arc (holes Y1 to Y7 and Z1 to Z7) indicates an awareness of the point necessary for the observation of the progressions of the sunrises. This point gives a six interval progression for a twelve interval annual cycle, which would give an effective farming calendar. Thus this centre of radius seems to be of some importance. However if the Eastern facing holes had continued on this radius they would have coincided with the outer Sarsen stones - but the remaining holes are centred on the Sarsen ring centre hence giving a double arc structure symmetrical to the Sarsen stones. This does not coincide with the Eastern facing holes (Y1 to Y7 and Z1 to Z7). To see a diagram that makes this clear, [ : ) ] please see Section 12, Figure 12.1 in the following link - sites.google.com/site/originsofstonehenge/home/a-season-weather-forecaster ( if the link does not work just copy it into the address bar ) If the above is correct then there must have been some marker for the centre of the Eastern facing arc - probably a hole, which should still be present in the chalk bedrock.
|
|||
tiompan 5758 posts |
Nov 26, 2014, 20:52
|
||
|
Dave , If a local farmer wanted to know when to plant /sow or harvest he is unlikely to need a calendar . Temperature , amount of light ,weather conditions , local knowledge ,experience and if necessary a look at the heavens ,as in Hesiod , are the likely spurs to action as opposed to strict calendrical dates . If you did need a calendar why go to the trouble of erecting a megalithic monument ,when the rude stones are hardly the most accurate sightlines and a bunch of posts will do the job quickly ,with little effort and every bit if not more accurately .If you happen to live in area where there are no stones you have little option anyway . Why would two groups of relatively shallow holes surrounding and post dating a complex stone monument be used as a calendrical device ?
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Edited Nov 27, 2014, 06:39
Nov 27, 2014, 06:38
|
||
|
We had a little chat about this nearly 10 years ago! http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/tma/topic/23601/threaded/266441 As I mentioned there, I have a pepperpot henge in my bay window that acts as a pretty good calendar, but it has come to me that by far the best way to track sunrises is the horizon itself and features on it. You don't need sticks or stones or any form of sighting system as it's very accurate and error proof - you don't even need to stand in a particular spot. So I'd say alignments to sunrises are mainly symbolic, not "useful".
|
|||
Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Nov 27, 2014, 08:49
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: We had a little chat about this nearly 10 years ago! http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/tma/topic/23601/threaded/266441 As I mentioned there, I have a pepperpot henge in my bay window that acts as a pretty good calendar, but it has come to me that by far the best way to track sunrises is the horizon itself and features on it. You don't need sticks or stones or any form of sighting system as it's very accurate and error proof - you don't even need to stand in a particular spot. So I'd say alignments to sunrises are mainly symbolic, not "useful". People had been on this little planet of ours for many many thousands of years prior to the Late Neolithic/Early BA and you can be pretty sure they knew all about sunrise/sunset/alignments, it didn't need a Stonehenge to tell them that or remind them of it. And while on the subject of SH, why is it the only one like it? If the 'finished product' was built for a set purpose and 'use', does it mean that it failed miserably so was never replicated elsewhere?
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 27, 2014, 09:31
|
||
Nah, there were zillions of them but they were all of wood and have rotted. SH was a one-off terribly expensive folly, like the Dome!
|
|||
|
Sanctuary 4670 posts |
Nov 27, 2014, 09:55
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: Nah, there were zillions of them but they were all of wood and have rotted. SH was a one-off terribly expensive folly, like the Dome! One was built of rock and followed the stars (allegedly)....and the other housed rock stars :-)
|
|||
|
Dave1982 83 posts |
Nov 28, 2014, 17:41
|
||
|
tiompan wrote: Dave , If a local farmer wanted to know when to plant /sow or harvest he is unlikely to need a calendar . Temperature , amount of light ,weather conditions , local knowledge ,experience and if necessary a look at the heavens ,as in Hesiod , are the likely spurs to action as opposed to strict calendrical dates . If you did need a calendar why go to the trouble of erecting a megalithic monument ,when the rude stones are hardly the most accurate sightlines and a bunch of posts will do the job quickly ,with little effort and every bit if not more accurately .If you happen to live in area where there are no stones you have little option anyway . Why would two groups of relatively shallow holes surrounding and post dating a complex stone monument be used as a calendrical device ? Hi tiompan You're absolutely right about the weather being of critical importance to farming ! I know because I did an agricultural apprenticeship in the early 1960s. Judging the expected weather was a main topic of conversation for all farmers. : ) When I served in the RE in Yemen - or Aden as it was then - in 1966 my squadron (30 Field Squadron RE - known as the ‘Dirty 30‘) built a road in the mountains near Taz. At the time the natives there were living a settled farming life at a very simple level. They ploughed with a wooded plough pulled by donkeys, hand sowed and grew just one crop a year. The farmed animal was goats. Once they knew I’d farmed in Britain they were very friendly and I got to know something about their lives at that time. They had no concept of a regular annual cycle other than a hot season, a wet season, and a cold season - the cold being similar to an English summer. The weather was very predictable and they had no need of a farming calendar. The need for one was just not there. But just look at the weather in our time in Britain - an ancient person may well have found it difficult to believe that we have a regular cyclic winter, spring and summer, and found it difficult to judge accurately when it was spring and time to sow, or mid summer when planting must be stopped as the crop will not have time to ripen before autumn - and to make a mistake could result in a winter famine and the deaths of the very young and old. The farming activities are very much effected and dictated by the seasons of the annual cycle. Unfortunately the daily weather in Britain can be a very unreliable guide as to forecasting the current and future seasons and expected weather. Hence the need for a season/weather forecaster. Full details on this need can be found on - https://sites.google.com/site/originsofstonehenge/home/original-purpose-of-the-stonehenge-site (if the link does not work just copy it into the address bar) I don’t think the Sarsen stone structure was used for a mundane farming purpose at all, as important as farming must have been in that age. The Eastern arc of the Y and Z holes do give a twelve interval calendar, and the dating is assumed from organic material in them. The holes themselves could date far further back if they had been regularly cleared out after the winter storms to expose the clean whiter chalk. Dating from organic material must be treated with caution. Dave1982.
|
|||
|
Dave1982 83 posts |
Nov 28, 2014, 17:50
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: We had a little chat about this nearly 10 years ago! http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/tma/topic/23601/threaded/266441 As I mentioned there, I have a pepperpot henge in my bay window that acts as a pretty good calendar, but it has come to me that by far the best way to track sunrises is the horizon itself and features on it. You don't need sticks or stones or any form of sighting system as it's very accurate and error proof - you don't even need to stand in a particular spot. So I'd say alignments to sunrises are mainly symbolic, not "useful". Yes, I do agree fully, the best way is to use natural horizon features, and I think this is how a sunrise season/weather forecaster originated. It is accepted that alignments to sunrises and other heavenly bodies are very important for symbolic functions. I love your pepperpot Stonehenge, that's really great : )) I have a miniature Stonehenge, made by English Heritage, that is amazingly accurate in it's details. It is only 5 inches or so across though, so I can't stand in the middle of it and see if it aligns with the sunrises - : )
|
|||
|
Dave1982 83 posts |
Nov 28, 2014, 17:53
|
||
|
nigelswift wrote: Nah, there were zillions of them but they were all of wood and have rotted. SH was a one-off terribly expensive folly, like the Dome! Don't forget the high speed rail link ! : )
|
|||
|
nigelswift 8112 posts |
Nov 28, 2014, 18:13
|
||
|
I love your pepperpot Stonehenge, that's really great : )) Yes, it's not to be sneezed at. (Condiment pun warning). I have a miniature Stonehenge, made by English Heritage, that is amazingly accurate in it's details. You need to bore a tunnel by it.
|
| Pages: 3 – [ 1 2 3 | Next ] | Add a reply to this topic |
|
|
|
| The Modern Antiquarian Forum Index | |
