thesweetcheat
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 18:35
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What an excellent post HD.
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Harryshill
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 18:37
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Oh yea, and the rest of it...
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GLADMAN
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 18:50
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thesweetcheat wrote: What an excellent post HD.
In what respect?
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CianMcLiam
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 20:53
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Paul Pettitt gave a talk at a conference over the weekend and was willing to speculate that some of the earliest phases of cave art could have been made by Neanderthals.
Nicholas Humphreys had a paper a good few years ago comparing some cave paintings with those done by non-verbal people with autism or degenerative brain diseases that resulted in loss of language. He put forward the proposition that the paintings were likely to have been created by pre-modern minds who were more accomplished with visual communication than verbal which could put Neanderthals in the picture (presuming they were non-verbal visual thinkers, which may be completely false). The claim was highly controversial though, and heavily criticised by Bahn, amongst others.
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tiompan
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 21:01
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Le Ferassie was a Neandethal burial site & rocjk shelter complete with rock art albeit cup marks and the possibility of other more complex engravings .
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Littlestone
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Edited Oct 31, 2012, 08:13
Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 30, 2012, 22:44
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I’m probably missing the obvious but how does the assumed demise of the Neanderthals equate with the end of the last (severe) ice age (in Britain). Neither seem to be clearly defined and we don't even seem to know for sure how far the last ice sheet stretched into southern Britain, how long Neanderthals might have lingered on there and perhaps interbred with Homo sapiens.
Just what might have been their legacy in the megalithic building arena – is it really that far-fetched to think that they were incapable of hauling big stones into a circle? They seem to be pretty good at other stone-working techniques so why not circles. And how old are our oldest circles – does anyone know? Does anyone know which are our oldest circles?
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VBB
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 31, 2012, 06:46
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Littlestone wrote: I’m probably missing the obvious
Me too, but the prosthetics department are marvelous. I look a bit like a giant action man, but the only real downside is people trying to look through the back of my head.
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moss
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Edited Oct 31, 2012, 08:29
Re: Homo floresiensis - The Little People
Oct 31, 2012, 08:26
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This is just a piece of news that jumped up this morning, it's to do with 'intellectual property rights' and homo floresiensis, to be called 'The Little People' from now on rather than Hobbits.. As I often feel sorry for Neanderthals and the attribution of their name to describe certain traits in humans, it is only right that all subspecies? of homo sapien should be treated with respect ;)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/oct/30/hobbit-banned-prehistoric-hobbit
Thanks to Heritage Daily for that....
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Harryshill
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Re: Homo floresiensis - The Little People
Oct 31, 2012, 10:57
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Amazing really, considering.
Hobbit — J. R. R. Tolkien modestly claimed not to have coined this word, although the Supplement to the OED credited him with the invention of it in the absence of further evidence. It seems, however, that Tolkien was right to be cautious. It has since turned up in one of those 19th-century folklore journals, in a list of long-forgotten words for fairy-folk or little people. It seems likely that Tolkien, with his interest in folklore, read this and subconsciously registered the name, reviving it many years later in his most famous character
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tiompan
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Re: Neanderthals v Humans
Oct 31, 2012, 11:20
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Neanderthals were living in Britain prior to the onset of the last ice age . Latest dates for them in Europe is approx 24,000 BP but they are believed to be extinct in Britain by 30,000 BP , this may or may not have been due to the worsening climate or homo sap . If they had built open air monuments the Devensian glaciation would have destroyed them unless they were in the less megalithic areas free of ice in the south and south east .
There is no reason to believe they were incapable of building stone circles but there is no reason or evidence anywhere where they were found to believe they did .
The chronology between even accurately dated deposits and the building of a monument is not that straightforward . Most stone circles are unexcavated so much of the dating is based on association and typology .Those that have been excavated can provide dateable material that may help in more accurate dating particularly if there is a clear stratigraphic relationship between the monoliths and the interior as has been found at sites like the Clava cairns (which have stone circles ) , Temple Wood , some Aberdeenshire RSC 'S etc .
A date from the ditch at Stenness was 3100-3000 BC .
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