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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Trees and stones with powers to throw? |
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 10, 2012, 11:18
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goffik wrote: Mr Hamhead wrote: I know many of you do believe in the powers stones can have and that is fine by me, but scientifically can this ever be proved? Discuss...... No it can't. It's cobblers. All in the head of the person that "experiences" it. Sorry and all that, but it's true. :) It's nice that some people think they experience things - christ (lol) knows I've imagined such things myself! - but I'm sensible enough to know it's whimsy and wishful thinking. Electric shock from stones? Get outta here! :D G x Good to see you back Goff, where have you been? Years ago when playing golf on your municipal golf course at Soton (the one more like an assault course rather than a golf course!) we ran into a thunderstorm so like idiots rushed under a tree...only to see one about 50 yards away get hit with a lightening bolt. No mistaking the electric shock you would have copped from that bugger!
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
May 10, 2012, 12:00
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An Indian sage was once queried by his disciple about being able to travel 10,000 miles in the blink of an eye. "Surely that can’t be possible, master," said the disciple. The sage replied, “I just got back.” :-)
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
May 10, 2012, 15:01
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True I don't have to experience what she feels - but then I don't have to be able to experience it myself for it to be proved real. She may well be able to detect something somehow. The test would prove she was genuinely picking up something. Unless, as Nigel suggests, she wouldn't be able to do it with the encumberence of a blindfold. I feel a bit like James Randi, I end up feeling a bit sorry for the people who come on his show because some of them are so earnest, it's not really that he wants to make them look foolish so much as make a point about scientific evidence. It makes me feel bad for insisting on evidence. But that's science for you. So I still want it. Otherwise how can I make an informed decision whether to believe such things or not? Or does it not matter and everyone should just believe whatever they like. See I just can't go for that.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 10, 2012, 15:59
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Rhiannon wrote: True I don't have to experience what she feels - but then I don't have to be able to experience it myself for it to be proved real. She may well be able to detect something somehow. The test would prove she was genuinely picking up something. Unless, as Nigel suggests, she wouldn't be able to do it with the encumberence of a blindfold. I feel a bit like James Randi, I end up feeling a bit sorry for the people who come on his show because some of them are so earnest, it's not really that he wants to make them look foolish so much as make a point about scientific evidence. It makes me feel bad for insisting on evidence. But that's science for you. So I still want it. Otherwise how can I make an informed decision whether to believe such things or not? Or does it not matter and everyone should just believe whatever they like. See I just can't go for that. I understand totally Rhiannon and take it as it comes. My friend doesn't push her thoughts or feelings onto anyone she keeps most of it to herself because of reactions such as this. She belongs to a small group of 'like-minded' folk who interestingly she says can all experience different 'feelings' for the same object/situation!! I was at Stannon stone circle a couple of weeks ago and saw what I took to be an 'offering' on and next to the off-set central stone. It was a silver coloured chain necklace with charms on it and a broken flat stone with some sort of painted drawing on it. I emailed her some pix I took of the whole shebang including one of the 'offerings' but made no comment on any of them. They were just pix I sent to a few people and to the Fieldnotes I put on TMA. She mailed back picking out the offering pic saying how sad it was that someone so young (20 she said) had parted from a 17-20 year-old and had left something in rememberance of him/her. I assumed it was an offering but she saw it as something else without me even suggesting anything. That's it.
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Littlestone 5386 posts |
Edited May 10, 2012, 16:41
May 10, 2012, 16:38
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It makes me feel bad for insisting on evidence. But that's science for you. So I still want it. Otherwise how can I make an informed decision whether to believe such things or not? Evidence is a tricky concept. What is evidence? One definition is - The quality or condition of being evident; clearness, obviousness. That’s very different to knowing how something works. We might be using something (medicinal plants and minerals are a good example) for years before science is able to explain the chemical properties of a substance, synthesize it and then market it as a ‘proven’ and acceptable medicine. Long before aspirin went through that process it was ‘evident, clear and obvious’ to people that chewing willow bark (the active chemical component in aspirin) relieved pain. I think it’s rather simplistic to expect a dowser to find water, or whatever, in a ‘controlled’ test. Why simplistic? Because the control itself (at least the ones I’ve read about) are simplistic. Asking someone to locate a buried bucket of water in a field is not the same as detecting an underground stream where other factors are at work - flow being the most obvious one. I keep an open mind on dowsing by the way – although I do believe in telepathy, telekinesis and being able to travel 10,000 miles in the blink of an eye :-) Edit: Sorry, that was intended for Rhiannon’s post. I was obviously travelling in the wrong direction when I hit the send button.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
May 10, 2012, 16:47
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Fair comment. I think I like a bit of order and sense in my world (though you'd not believe it looking at my desk) and maybe that's a human thing isn't it. Wanting firm explanations and reasons and sense. But not everything is easy to make sense of, maybe lots of it won't ever make sense. This is slightly off at a tangent, but I was reading this rather interesting account of an expedition in the arctic http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/100355#page/25/mode/1up (a few pages back there's an excellent account of building an igloo) but that page talks about them watching the aurora borealis. And they think they can hear it, but they're not sure. They're not sure it's their imaginations or whether it's real. And so I thought I'd have a quick google about it and it seems it's still a contentious thing - maybe they DO make a noise, or maybe they do something that means some people can detect it and some maybe can't http://www.damninteresting.com/the-sound-of-the-aurora/
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 10, 2012, 16:55
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Littlestone wrote: It makes me feel bad for insisting on evidence. But that's science for you. So I still want it. Otherwise how can I make an informed decision whether to believe such things or not? Evidence is a tricky concept. What is evidence? One definition is - The quality or condition of being evident; clearness, obviousness. That’s very different to knowing how something works. We might be using something (medicinal plants and minerals are a good example) for years before science is able to explain the chemical properties of a substance, synthesize it and then market it as a ‘proven’ and acceptable medicine. Long before aspirin went through that process it was ‘evident, clear and obvious’ to people that chewing willow bark (the active chemical component in aspirin) relieved pain. I think it’s rather simplistic to expect a dowser to find water, or whatever, in a ‘controlled’ test. Why simplistic? Because the control itself (at least the ones I’ve read about) are simplistic. Asking someone to locate a buried bucket of water in a field is not the same as detecting an underground stream where other factors are at work - flow being the most obvious one. I keep an open mind on dowsing by the way – although I do believe in telepathy, telekinesis and being able to travel 10,000 miles in the blink of an eye :-) Edit: Sorry, that was intended for Rhiannon’s post. I was obviously travelling in the wrong direction when I hit the send button. LOL When we moved to where we live now we had no mains water so had a bore hole drilled. The most 'unlikely' looking of blokes came along with a couple of L shaped dowsing rods and walked completely around the outside of the barn we were converting and proclaimed 'This is the spot'! 'Great' said I, 'How far down?' cynically! He inverted the rods so that the handles were faciing upwards and stood in the middle of the 'flow'. '120ft', he proudly announced. Three days later a crew arrived a started drilling. They got to 115ft and this guy said now was the time to get the camera out. They added a further drill and struck water at 117ft!!! Job done and water dowsing proven as far as I was concerned!
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Resonox 604 posts |
May 10, 2012, 17:16
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There has been an awful lot of discussion about people with "powers", I have been on the side of the doubters because no-one is willing to prove they actually have these self-proclaimed powers ...as Nigel (I think )said...the mere presence of a doubter seems to inhibit these powers from working slightly/completely/at all. A dowser on national radio claimed "only 3% of people can dowse naturally" then bingo (as if by magic) this wondrous figure was being bandied about like winning lottery numbers. In a discussion with a dowser with exceptional, yet unwitnessed talents in this direction he accused me of being jealous as I was one of the 97%. I countered with the point that if 3% of humans could dowse naturally what percentage dowsed UNnaturally(no answer), I also pointed out...3% of the human population is a hell of a lot of people all with this power (answer..not all choose to use their power). I then asked if it is indeed a power or is it a gift (no answer). Then to top it all of I was told I had this power...but being as I was "in severe denial" I would never be able to use it, so I then asked if it was my own ability which was impeding people around me with the gift and who chose to use it from being able to dowse in my presence( answer...Thats it in a nutshell)....Nope sorry...only people who feel a need to be more SPECIAL than their fellow man are those who claim (and can't prove) powers. BTW..I do NOT doubt dowsing works....for detecting streams (running water creates sound , vibration and possibly e-m fields)...but it is an urban myth that Water Board officials carry dowsing rods as a matter of general practice...the right-angled rods they carry are used to put in drilled holes and listen to water running in pipes and pump operations...though a good few wags will tell the gullible they are dowsing rods.
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Sanctuary 4670 posts |
May 10, 2012, 17:26
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Rhiannon wrote: Fair comment. I think I like a bit of order and sense in my world (though you'd not believe it looking at my desk) and maybe that's a human thing isn't it. Wanting firm explanations and reasons and sense. But not everything is easy to make sense of, maybe lots of it won't ever make sense. This is slightly off at a tangent, but I was reading this rather interesting account of an expedition in the arctic http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/100355#page/25/mode/1up (a few pages back there's an excellent account of building an igloo) but that page talks about them watching the aurora borealis. And they think they can hear it, but they're not sure. They're not sure it's their imaginations or whether it's real. And so I thought I'd have a quick google about it and it seems it's still a contentious thing - maybe they DO make a noise, or maybe they do something that means some people can detect it and some maybe can't http://www.damninteresting.com/the-sound-of-the-aurora/ Well I watched it when in Iceland and what I can say is that when you first witness it you are so locked into it that your senses highten and maybe that is why people say they can hear it. I can't say I did but there you are!
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BuckyE 468 posts |
May 10, 2012, 17:34
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Mine certainly seems to be. Not sure I LIKE it, but I've learned to live with it. More or less.
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