tjj
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Edited Sep 16, 2010, 11:54
Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 10:53
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Hi Bladup,
You are preaching to the converted - though I would have appreciated it if you hadn't merged my post with your own strongly worded views (and you left out the words 'peace to all')
I don't really care about the pope's visit one way or the other, but when when talking to an elderly woman (my mum) who has a deeply embedded 'faith' I hold my tongue. Berating her for the church's misdemeanours will not add light to the world.
There is of course a political argument about who is funding the trip but that is probably another discussion for a different forum.
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moss
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 11:29
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"On the eve of the pope's visit to this '3rd world country' of ours, how pagan are we still? Underneath the delaminating veneer of the State religion, and the State establishment, how much of the old ways still linger deep within us? Not so much in the brittle surface of our society, but more in what we say and do on a daily basis without hardly thinking of it. The intrinsic 'we' that lives on in our language and in our relationship with our land and our fellow human beings."
Well as someone who loves the gods of old, be they Northern or 'celtic', I'd say the Anglo-Saxon pagan character still lives on in our British belligerent attitudes, (witness football) and on a quieter note, I think most of us love the natural world, and that can be seen in how we fight over the 'freedom' to walk freely in this country of ours, and how there are so many organisations dedicated to preserving birds, animals, wild places etc..... whether this has a pagan origin I'm not sure but one thing is for sure, religion provokes a helluva of an argument ;)...
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nigelswift
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 12:03
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"dedicated to preserving birds, animals, wild places etc..... whether this has a pagan origin I'm not sure "
Nah, people have always maximised their comfort by exploiting their surroundings. Dunno why neo-Pagans suggest old pagans were green. Once they got into farming they went barmy with the environment didn't they?
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Littlestone
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Edited Sep 16, 2010, 13:25
Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 12:18
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Yes, hardwired in so much as the 'god gene' would have us believe.
I was thinking more in terms of cultural nurture however than of human nature. The rhythms of the English language for example have barely changed in two thousand years (or more) and the sounds we use to express how we see the world, and how those sounds are arranged into sentences, are part and parcel of who we are.
Many cultures outside the European 'consciousness' see the world in a totally different way to how we see it; they have words that we don't have (or don't have words that we do have) and they string them together in a different way. Underneath all those perceptions run cultures moulded from millennia, and the differences between them are fascinating. You won't find the same love of nature in many cultures as you do here (even though our love may be formalised into tending gardens and allotments) and you won't find the same love for animals in many places elsewhere, nor our staunch independence and sense of freedom - it is these things that have sprung from our traditions and make us what we are today - most of the time without us hardly even realising it.
So, it may be Thor's day here, and tomorrow it will be Freya's day, but in at least three other countries today is the day of Wood, and tomorrow will be the day of Fire, and in some places it is not even 2010 : -)
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 12:46
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I was hoping Richard Dawkins would arrest the Pope, as he said he was going to, back in January and February this year. But it seems he's been at the Woodstock literary festival instead. The Turin Shroud is going on show later in the year and, I believe, is more worthy of discussion.
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 12:49
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Yes, at the Knar there is a whole hillside of young trees, that have been clear felled and used for fuel, with the knotty bits left as a thin layer between the peat. Nothing environmentally aware about that, no matter which gods they subscribed to. The modern farmers have exactly the same attitude:- cut it, wrap it, sell it ...
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Sanctuary
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 13:44
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StoneGloves wrote: I was hoping Richard Dawkins would arrest the Pope, as he said he was going to, back in January and February this year. But it seems he's been at the Woodstock literary festival instead. The Turin Shroud is going on show later in the year and, I believe, is more worthy of discussion.
Well at least what can't speak can't lie!!
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nigelswift
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 13:56
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The modern farmers have exactly the same attitude:- cut it, wrap it, sell it ...
Trouble is, we all have an horizon of concern. Our children and grandchildren and gt grandchildren maybe, but after that it all gets a bit abstract. It's nature again I suppose, if your DNA is diluted to almost nothing you find it hard to feel so concerned.
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 18:22
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Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that ! Interesting pollen samples, though, allegedly entrapped in the cloth.
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StoneGloves
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Re: The Pagan 'problem'
Sep 16, 2010, 18:29
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Yes, my existential angst declined substantially after realising I had grand-children. (But that's not what you mean). The requirement to sustain the soil would be an integral cultural norm in a healthy society, by 'common sense'. It can be seen in a microcosm on an allotment site, with half the gardeners avidly composting, and the other half just stripping the topsoil, slowly. The crude indicator is soil height, a finer one is microinvertebrates (per yogurt pot).
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