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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Tidying up offerings |
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Resonox 604 posts |
May 29, 2010, 09:41
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tjj wrote: faerygirl wrote: nigelswift wrote: faerygirl wrote: I think saying that removing things to "restore" it to how it was intended is quite an assumption as we dont have a clue what these things are for If in doubt do nowt. Im always in doubt. Why an I here? WHere am I going? What will happen next? What day is it? I would never get out of bed if I lived by your saying... Hah! My father's advice to me when I left home for the big city, aged nearly 18, was "If in doubt, don't do it". There are times I wish I had followed that advice or at least followed my first intuition about certain people and situations. I don't describe myself as a pagan (perhaps a pantheist) though sometimes feel like making a small 'offering' back to the earth, especially at summer's end. When I do it is always biodegradable fruit (for the birds to consume) and left somewhere where no one will notice it. Can't see anything wrong with doing that ... each to their own conscience, so long as it does no harm to the environment. I see my mistake now...I've been leaving that non-biodegradable fruit...lol
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 29, 2010, 09:49
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Resonox wrote: faerygirl wrote: I dont feel I have the authority to tell someone their belief is stupid. I'm trying to find where I actually made the claim that I do. Easy Tiger, I didn't say you did! Everyone is very defensive on here! I was pointing out everyones sentiments of clear out the tat/ throw away the rubbish/ idiots and their supposed pagan beliefs/ etc.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 29, 2010, 10:00
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I dont feel I have the authority to tell someone their belief is stupid. No, but people have every right to assert that the offerings are intrusive. Beliefs are sacrosanct, and so should sites be.
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 29, 2010, 10:24
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Resonox wrote: tjj wrote: faerygirl wrote: nigelswift wrote: faerygirl wrote: I think saying that removing things to "restore" it to how it was intended is quite an assumption as we dont have a clue what these things are for If in doubt do nowt. Im always in doubt. Why an I here? WHere am I going? What will happen next? What day is it? I would never get out of bed if I lived by your saying... Hah! My father's advice to me when I left home for the big city, aged nearly 18, was "If in doubt, don't do it". There are times I wish I had followed that advice or at least followed my first intuition about certain people and situations. I don't describe myself as a pagan (perhaps a pantheist) though sometimes feel like making a small 'offering' back to the earth, especially at summer's end. When I do it is always biodegradable fruit (for the birds to consume) and left somewhere where no one will notice it. Can't see anything wrong with doing that ... each to their own conscience, so long as it does no harm to the environment. I see my mistake now...I've been leaving that non-biodegradable fruit...lol AH but even then, it takes a month for an orange to biodegrade, 2 for an apple, in the meantime there is rotting smelly fruit there! ICK!
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 29, 2010, 10:48
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nigelswift wrote: I dont feel I have the authority to tell someone their belief is stupid. No, but people have every right to assert that the offerings are intrusive. Beliefs are sacrosanct, and so should sites be. Hope you all like mosque calls and church bells then else its trouble for everyone! ;)
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 29, 2010, 11:22
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Hope you all like mosque calls and church bells then else its trouble for everyone! ;) Well yes, there's a strong case for saying those are intrusive and people mostly tolerate them (but for lots of obvious reasons that can't apply to offerings at megalithic sites). The other big thing about church bells and mosque calls is that they aren't imposed on the rest of society 24/7, which offerings left at sites are. This is my bacon sandwich point. If offerers came back in half a day and removed the stuff it would at least show a bit of respect to other visitors and people would be a lot more tolerant towards them no doubt. But just going home and leaving whatever they've left to annoy, detract or biodegrade smellily until people with more respect for the site and their fellow visitors remove them (AND get larupped for doing it!) is just a teeny bit naughty. ;)
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 29, 2010, 11:32
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nigelswift wrote: Hope you all like mosque calls and church bells then else its trouble for everyone! ;) Well yes, there's a strong case for saying those are intrusive and people mostly tolerate them (but for lots of obvious reasons that can't apply to offerings at megalithic sites). The other big thing about church bells and mosque calls is that they aren't imposed on the rest of society 24/7, which offerings left at sites are. This is my bacon sandwich point. If offerers came back in half a day and removed the stuff it would at least show a bit of respect to other visitors and people would be a lot more tolerant towards them no doubt. But just going home and leaving whatever they've left to annoy, detract or biodegrade smellily until people with more respect for the site and their fellow visitors remove them (AND get larupped for doing it!) is just a teeny bit naughty. ;) Like I said, I don't leave anything apart from an echo and wonder around picking up peoples fag butts and sweet wrappers (I did the same thing in India, but its a bit of a losing battle...) I just think it can be difficult to say who is right and who is wrong here. YES you shouldn't leave old socks and scraps of plastic tied to trees at these places, but you have no idea about the situations that have lead to it. Drunken idiots just leaving tat? Most likely. But how about a little girl whos daddy used to bring her up here as a child and she wants to leave something to remember him by. Everyone seemed very touched and happy about the story of the carved pebble left in memory of a relative but what if EVERYONE did that? You wouldn't be able to get anywhere near the bloody place and then it would be considered tat and moved. What if you cant afford a nice carved pebble but the passed relative loved pottery cows (I'm sorry to keep coming back to the cow, I actually think its a bloody stupid thing to leave but thats not the point)! It shouldnt be any less important because we (the observer) think its less tasteful, it could be just as meaningful.
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tjj 3606 posts |
May 29, 2010, 11:49
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Resonox wrote: tjj wrote: faerygirl wrote: nigelswift wrote: faerygirl wrote: I think saying that removing things to "restore" it to how it was intended is quite an assumption as we dont have a clue what these things are for If in doubt do nowt. Im always in doubt. Why an I here? WHere am I going? What will happen next? What day is it? I would never get out of bed if I lived by your saying... Hah! My father's advice to me when I left home for the big city, aged nearly 18, was "If in doubt, don't do it". There are times I wish I had followed that advice or at least followed my first intuition about certain people and situations. I don't describe myself as a pagan (perhaps a pantheist) though sometimes feel like making a small 'offering' back to the earth, especially at summer's end. When I do it is always biodegradable fruit (for the birds to consume) and left somewhere where no one will notice it. Can't see anything wrong with doing that ... each to their own conscience, so long as it does no harm to the environment. I see my mistake now...I've been leaving that non-biodegradable fruit...lol Ahh! I've made someone laugh, my day is already proving fruitful. To be specific, I meant summer berries such as blackberries or blueberries - left in an open space, somewhere in the countryside - away from sites, sacred or otherwise. No doubt someone will find something wrong with that but to be frank I don't give a toss.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
May 29, 2010, 11:50
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But how about a little girl whos daddy used to bring her up here as a child and she wants to leave something to remember him by. Aw come on, don't play the orphaned little girl card, you know I can't say anything now without sounding like a monster! Anyway, can't she leave it near but not at? And as for offerings having a "significance" to the offerer that makes them immune from removal, that would mean anyone could leave anything anywhere - and no-one could tidy up in case it was Fido's favourite toy! Nah, personal significance is personal and shouldn't be imposed on the community. Graffiti can be deeply personal yet dreadfully vandalistic at the same time.
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faerygirl 412 posts |
May 29, 2010, 12:02
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nigelswift wrote: But how about a little girl whos daddy used to bring her up here as a child and she wants to leave something to remember him by. Aw come on, don't play the orphaned little girl card, you know I can't say anything now without sounding like a monster! Anyway, can't she leave it near but not at? And as for offerings having a "significance" to the offerer that makes them immune from removal, that would mean anyone could leave anything anywhere - and no-one could tidy up in case it was Fido's favourite toy! Nah, personal significance is personal and shouldn't be imposed on the community. Graffiti can be deeply personal yet dreadfully vandalistic at the same time. HAHA I knew that one would get you! I actually only used that one because a friend of mine tied ribbon at Long Meg for her father who used to take her there. In all fairness Long Meg is so grim and miserable it could do with some ribbon to brighten the place up a bit!! My point there was to show how peoples OWN view on whats decent and whats not shouldn't come into it. Lots of earlier posts were saying how nothing should be left and that people are making a mess of the place but these same people were happy with the little carved stones. Thats just not fair!
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