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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » BNP are using our megalithic heritage as their own |
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Treeman 65 posts |
Jul 29, 2005, 18:53
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Well spotted, Northern Hoard, and you have certainly raised at least one issue of enormous importance. My own feeling would be that if the BNP dreck take up the megalithic heritage in a sustained way, Head Heritage could and should become the focus for some valuable anti-racist work. Obviously any attempt to develop a nationalist - let alone racist - agenda on the basis of something as generally human as landscape modification is the product of a blob of rotting garbage disguised as a brain. Part of the liberating potential of studying prehistory, it seems to me, is the struggle for other than divisive national identities as a basis for a human life. As with everything else from racist graniteheads, the BNP position as described - being rooted in ignorance and malice - is not difficult to demolish, and that must be worth doing. I agree with various contributors that sensitivity is needed over use of the "swastika" symbol by authentic hindus and buddhists. That said, it is possible to discuss with people of those beliefs how the fascist experience has left the swastika a hideously tainted symbol in the modern world. Its use, certainly in public, could be voluntarily limited on that basis. Anyway, these days I don't keep up with what neo-nazi dross is doing the way I once did, so thanks Northern Hoard, for the information. Treeman
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morfe 2992 posts |
Jul 29, 2005, 22:19
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"Obviously any attempt to develop a nationalist - let alone racist - agenda on the basis of something as generally human as landscape modification is the product of a blob of rotting garbage disguised as a brain." Perfect!
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Moth 5236 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 00:37
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Nicking what Juamei said above & adding a few bits: Your browser keeps a copy (& record) of pages you visit (called a cache). This forum displays visited (cached) links in orange and unvisited ones (uncached) in red. If you clear (flush) the cache (or something else clears it) on your browser, it makes them all go red. If you do some kind of disk clean up or manually wipe cookies you may clear your cache in the process. Or (as happened to me the other day) it can just happen for no apparent reason. The technical term for this mysterious unwanted 'cache-clearing' is BASTARD COMPUTERS!!!!!!!! love Moth
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 06:03
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"Hi Nige, giving up the swastika, that's what I can't do. I'm hoping that the Doc will allow me to expand." You're free to aren't you? But first, may I offer you my perception: You acknowledge (I think) that hurting those old people is probably what you do, even though it isn't your deliberate intent and you regret their discomfort. But you can't give up. To me, the only way I can logically reconcile that is that you do it for a greater good. As you'll understand, big swastikas and believing in hurting people for the greater good are two of the trademarks of the very fascists which you genuinely don't believe you are. The real fascists, who were otherwise no doubt civilised and nice people, got in that mindset by accepting some loony philosophy. Thereafter, it all became logical and right for them. If you yourself, are basing your actions on your belief in lizards from the lower fourth dimension then from my perspective that's another way in which you are replicating them. "Love thy neighbour" is what we general strive for in this dimension. Catholic Nazis reconciled their actions with that by adding some beliefs that were not of this dimension. You seem to be doing the same. We can't argue with each other's beliefs. No point of contact. But I'm of this dimension and can't see the lower fourth dimension however much you say I'm closed-minded and ought to read David Eycke's evidence (I have a bit, and am unconvinced - now what?). What would you say if I told you I was in touch with an eighth dimension, that coincidentally was the same as this dimension, and ruled all other dimensions including the lower fourth, and it's rules were "love thy neighbour and avoid showing great big swastikas in public"? Would you accept it or would you say "no, I KNOW the lower fourth dimension is the most important one?" |
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fitzcoraldo 2709 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 10:26
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http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 12:53
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Sorry Mike I'm still not with you. Your first reply didn't convey any sort of an answer to my posting - other than, perhaps, that you came across a policeman who had had a relative in a concentration camp - who knows? Your second reply conveyed that you have indeed a motivation for causing hurt that is justified by a greater good which is based upon your belief, but is of a different dimension. In my world, "other dimensional excuses" for what appears to everyone else to be cruel can lead to bad stuff - like tube bombs. What else could the bombers do, it was their belief. |
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 13:16
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It was to start with, yes. But then it just turned into a slanging match between Dr Atomic and yourself. I like people disagreeing and I like a good argument. but I'm bored of the same old rehash of personal insults. In fact it's the personal insults thing that really annoys me (yes I've resorted to it myself on occasion). It's just a way (like trolling) of diverting from the topic in hand and is a recourse of people with no argument or intelligent way of expressing their opinion. Anyway this remark is hardly adding usefully to anything. Which is why I mean it to be my last comment on the matter. Sigh. Internet - pah. I should find myself a useful hobby. |
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 16:19
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No Mike I'm not playing an ignorant fool. I'm a (fairly) old man and I'm in Avebury a lot, and big swastikas certainly upset me. So I might have been THAT old man, I can't remember, I have a short term memory problem. I'm quite simply intrigued. You're a nice guy that doesn't want to cause pain yet you know you may have, to me. That's illogical, and you seem to be justifying it to yourself and me by reference to a greater good, that comes from your belief in something that has come from the lower fourth dimension, that I've tried hard to see but can't. Can you not see a reason for me to feel hard done by? |
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Paulus 769 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 16:57
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Hi Nige I don't mean this to be offensive or hurtful in anyway, but you remarked: < You're forever explaining how a swastika's effect depends on it's intent. But that's not right is it. Your gesture, delivered with love, hurts. it's not personal, you don't have that intent, but it does. > That's getting very close to "playing the victim" game. You're not are you? Sincere question. |
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PeterH 1180 posts |
Jul 30, 2005, 17:16
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A symbol is a pictogram. It broadcasts a non verbal, non literary message. The key thing is - does the recipient receive the message that the author intended to send? From what Mike has written - I don't believe for one moment that he is a nazi, a fascist or a racist. I don't really understand why he is compelled to use the swastika, but I do understand that it is an ancient sun symbol and used by Buddhists, Hindus and others. Unfortunately, the evil of the Nazi regime will be all that most people will ever understand the swastika to mean. If I wear a cross - you will assume that I am a Christian. If I wear the Star of David you will think me a Jew and a pentangle will tell you that I am a Pagan. So it is that if I wear a swastika - you will condemn me as a Nazi. Its inevitable. Mike wants to change the meaning of a symbol overnight and that he cannot do. In displaying the swastika, he intends to send out a message saying that the swastika is beneficial and will save us from aliens (have I got that bit right?) But the message received by everyone else is that he is a neo-nazi. If Mike unilaterally decided that red meant "go" and green meant "stop" - then his next trip in his car could be his last. You just cannot impose a whole new meaning to a well known symbol and expect anyone to accept and understand it. Symbols only work because we all understand and accept their meaning. Fact of life. |
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