Wiggy
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Re: Another naive question
Jul 30, 2005, 17:20
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I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of white britons had some genetic inheritance from pre celtic peoples, but I'm not so sure that 80% of our genetic inheritance is from those pre celtic peoples if you see what I mean. Do you have a link?
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Paulus
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 17:37
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Hi Peter
< If I wear a cross - you will assume that I am a Christian. >
Which might offend me...
< If I wear the Star of David you will think me a Jew >
...which might offend someone else.
< and a pentangle will tell you that I am a Pagan. >
...which does offend some xtians.
< Mike wants to change the meaning of a symbol overnight and that he cannot do. >
Aye...only thru gradual, lengthy education can things change. The people who want to keep it as symbol of vilification, let 'em keep it. Victims will be victims. I know that's damn harsh - but it's true. Curious how, in a talk I did for an audience of retired prosessionals about the Swastika Stone in Harrogate a couple of years back - the youngest must've been 60yrs - the response to the archiac nature of the symbol was one of fascination. Not one complaint. Not one shocked expression. Not one disgusted dood. And all of 'em either fought, or had mates in World War II.
Who or what are some of us trying to protect here?
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doktoratomik
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 17:40
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> It was to start with, yes. But then it just turned into a slanging match between Dr Atomic and yourself. I like people
> disagreeing and I like a good argument. but I'm bored of the same old rehash of personal insults.
I'm starting to wonder if anyone actually reads my posts before hurling accusations around. Would you care to provide one single example of an instance where I've used a personal insult against Mike? I think I'm one of the few people who hasn't! I've been having what I perceived as a polite, healthy debate. Why on earth do you interpret this as a 'slanging match' containing 'personal insults'? Comments such as these are far more insulting than anything posted by myself.
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PeterH
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:11
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Well I'm not sure why me wearing a cross would offend you but you doubtless have your reasons. The swastika stone will not offend geriatrics like me because it clearly can never be taken for a Nazi swastika any more than the X some of you use to spell Christian can symbolise the + of Christain iconography. The power is in the symbol because people put it there. A pretty pattern on a moorland rock is not going to offend anyone.
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Paulus
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:16
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you miss the point
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PeterH
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:30
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Sorry - please enlighten me in words of one syllable - I'm quite old you know.
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nigelswift
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:32
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Paulus:
You said, about what I said to Mike ("Your gesture, delivered with love, hurts. it's not personal, you don't have that intent, but it does")
..."That's getting very close to "playing the victim" game. You're not are you? Sincere question."
I'm not altogether sure I know what you mean by the victim game. I didn't mean I'm personally a victim or very much hurt, I meant his gesture, delivered with love hurts SOME PEOPLE. That's true isn't it? It would certainly have hurt my late parents, with good reason. They'd have been horrified to be confronted by Mikes huge "gesture of love" and my sons, their grandchildren would be furious on their behalf.
That's hardly a matter for dispute, Mike knows that. All I'm trying to put to Mike is that his justification for that is a fourth dimensional one that neither I nor my parents nor hardly anyone else buys, so he's not playing fair. If he wants to be a good member of THIS society he should keep to a small swastika, in private, then I'll have no issues at all with him.
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Paulus
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:36
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Seems like it'd be wasted on you. Try asking your doctor!
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PeterH
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 18:42
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Just wanted to say that displaying the swastika is not just about offending, upsetting or hurting "old people". I'm old, but not a victim. Lots of young people get very angry, upset, annoyed etc when they see swastikas or other fascists symbols. No matter what the swastika once was or what some people want it to be - the received message is the one that the nazis put upon it. Use it and you will be seen to endorse their extreme views and there's not much that will change that.
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Paulus
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Re: Mike
Jul 30, 2005, 19:02
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Hi Nigel
< I'm not altogether sure I know what you mean by the victim game. >
No worries Nigel. Sorry if I troubled you. Your answer's fine to me. You're obviously not one of the "I'm a victim" dood, who uses it as a power ploy - or disempowerment ploy, whichever way you wanna look at it (both the same really). People who walk thru life with a crucifix on their back, expecting everyone to be forever 'understanding' about it (whatever it maybe), but in themselves are unwilling to make the effort to take the nails out. Even worse, refusing to see their own crucifixes when it becomes apparent, preferring the chains, wallowing in self-obsessed victimhood. Professional victims, so to speak, playing the victim game. Call me a bad lad, but I've no time for such people.
As for Mike's 4th levels or whatever - 'fraid I don't have a clue misself. Way beyond me. None of the gods or spirits I've met down the years have mentioned it to me. Not even the 1st level for that matter. I must be truly fucked! Gimme the real levels of rain, wind, streams, moss, dew and a damn good scream from toppova rock-face. That's enough - way enough for me...and such things are endless...
Right - I'll shut up now. I'm going for a beer!
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