FourWinds
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Re: Devastation in pictures
Jan 02, 2005, 08:59
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Insulation alone is not the answer (although it is a big part of it), but Pilkington would say that wouldn't they - THEY PRODUCE INSULATING GLASS. If you listen to Tate & Lyle sugar isn't bad for you, either. You need to be able to quote independent sources, not biased ones.
Ireland is currently undergoing a massive wind turbine construction plan and the gov't here recognise that it's just not big enough. At the moment about 11% of Ireland's electricity comes from wind and that should grow to about 25% in the next ten years. SOme of the Scandinavian countries have over 30% of their power from wind already (circa 1999 figures).
The thing is we need two things. We need more electricity now and we need to replace the fossil fuel sources very, very quickly. We need to do this NOW! There's no time to look for alternatives. It's that simple.
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FourWinds
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Wind is PART of the answer
Jan 02, 2005, 09:13
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It has to be. It's "free" energy and it has to be utilised.
What may not be the answer is the way we currently harness wind power, that I will grant you.
We have a problem though. We haven't got time to look for alternatives. The fossil fuel supplies are running out and we need to replace those BEFORE they expire. It's no use waiting around until it runs out before acting.
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FourWinds
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Re: Devastation in pictures
Jan 02, 2005, 09:19
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The issue of subsidising wind farms is not really a valid argument anyway. Do you think that we don't subsidise current power production?
We do and in a big way. It's just not factored into the cost of the power. Maintenance of ports where coal is shipped in. Upkeep of roads used to transport coal etc to power stations. The massive impact on the health service caused by pollution created by power stations.
If all this was factored into the cost of electricity it would be very expensive. As it is the power companies are heavily subsidised by the tax payer.
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smallblueplanet
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Re: Devastation in pictures
Jan 02, 2005, 10:51
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Its not just a few pretty windmills though.....
Have you read the objections from the locals on their website? Tell me who there will benefit and how will they be better off than now?
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BrigantesNation
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Re: Sleeping Beauty
Jan 02, 2005, 11:10
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Can I have some proof of these deaths? I challenged a similar post on a newsgroup not so long back and could not get a single confirmation other than chat hearsay.
Do you honestly think the rotors go round that quick?
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BrigantesNation
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Re: Sleeping Beauty
Jan 02, 2005, 11:13
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Totally with you 4W, these are no bigger than trees. Do we object to trees?
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pixie1948
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Re: Devastation in pictures
Jan 02, 2005, 11:18
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We already have at least 3 alternatives to fossil fuels - Wind, Solar and Wave power all taken from free sources and only needing the backing of the government to get them working. These have been known about for over 40 years but little attempt has been made to use them until recently beause of the domination of business interest.
If we want these for the future we have to make it known
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smallblueplanet
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Re: Sleeping Beauty
Jan 02, 2005, 11:18
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I guess 140m high trees must be redwoods?
"The proposed wind farm
The wind farm would comprise 234 turbines, each 140 m tall. In addition, the developers are seeking permission to build 167 km of roads, nine electrical substations and a control building. Some 210 pylons would be needed to support the 56 km of overhead cable that would transport the electricity produced by the turbines. This network of turbines, roads and pylons would stretch from Stornoway to Ness (approx 40 km).
Each turbine would need a concrete foundation of approximately 1,800 m2 and next to it an area of 'hardstanding' for the installation cranes to use. Rock needed to construct roads, hardstandings and foundations will require the creation of at least five quarries or 'borrow-pits'."
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BrigantesNation
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Re: Devastation in pictures
Jan 02, 2005, 11:20
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So you are against all roads, but like to dig up all the archaeological sites so they can be in the museum?
I notice the foreest this road is gonig through. I guess we should stop the destruction of the fire breaks as well? all massive destruction of rather fast growing non native trees.
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smallblueplanet
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Re: Sleeping Beauty
Jan 02, 2005, 11:38
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http://www.dartdorset.org/Windfarms_Compilation_of_birdkill_statistics.pdf
there's lots of links at the end of the document
also bats
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000EB932-D3E2-1FF8-90AE83414B7F0000&ref=sciam&chanID=sa004
there are many links to reports from home and abroad here, as well as report summaries
http://www.countryguardian.net/Birds%20and%20Bats.htm
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