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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Lewis and Harris » Sleeping Beauty |
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smallblueplanet 472 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 12:43
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Well, I don't agree - and if you read the statistics about wind power you'll see because of its nature (intermittent, space needed, windy site, etc) it is only ever viewed as a minority supply. Have you ever been near any of these things, personally I wouldn't want to live near one one (and I say this as someone who has an electricity pylon about 60m away at the bottom of the garden).
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 13:31
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Only with current technology and with current coal supplies. What happens when the coal has gone?
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smallblueplanet 472 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 13:36
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When will that be?
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 13:49
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"Well, I don't agree - and if you read the statistics about wind power you'll see because of its nature (intermittent, space needed, windy site, etc) it is only ever viewed as a minority supply." Define minority! 15% of a country's needs may be less than the coal output but it's hardly a minor contribution is it? Bandying around words like 'minority' without stating the figures is the typical ploy of the propaganorist. "Have you ever been near any of these things, personally I wouldn't want to live near one one (and I say this as someone who has an electricity pylon about 60m away at the bottom of the garden)." I assume you bought the house with the pylon there. Yes, I've been close to these things - I'm a hillwalker. I love them and everytime I see them I am moved at their grace and beauty. Honest! It moves me to think that for their work a coal/nuclear facility isn't killing my kids quite so much. In the 1930's Ireland's electricity was 98% renewable. It nearly all came from hydro power on the River Shannon. Ireland is (fairly) committed to returning to this state of affairs with a large scale return to renewable energy of which wind power is just a part. Due to the good coasts enjoyed by the UK and Ireland wind power generated electricity is cheaper than it is in other European countries. In 1998 the cost was 5 cent and 7 cent per kWh in Ireland and the UK respectively, whereas in Germany it was nearly 9 cent. Wind energy is still more expensive than 'normally' generated power, but this is only because the infrastructure for the more traditional generators is in place and has already paid for itself - and in fact was heavily subsidised by the tax payer in the first place. Source: "Strategy for Intensifying Wind Energy Development" from the "Renewable Energy Strategy Group"
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moss 2897 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 13:53
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The way the world is going, there just isnt going to be plentiful supplies of oil, gas coal, or any other of the fuel burning energies that are currently heading our planet into extinction. Anybody watch xmas lectures, glaciers melting fast, and no one has mentioned 10,000 starving penguins. In the end the argument can run and run, but we have to embrace other technologies pretty damn fast to balance the natural energy systems that are beginning to run amok in this one world which we inhabit with many other species. So, in some eyes windfarms are offensive (like them personally), but they use free non polluting energy, and we each and everyone of us, have to cut back on our use of energy, grit our teeth and accept that they will be part of our landscape. Also agree with FTC, that the people of Lewis have a right to determine their own future; there is too much nimbyism down south that starts squealing as soon as house prices might be affected because of spoiled landscape views - turbines or travellers!
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 13:53
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That depends whose figures you take to be accurate. There's loads there but most of it is not economically viable to extract. It's the same with oil. 20 to 35 years would be about right at current consumption levels.
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smallblueplanet 472 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 14:10
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Here's an Irish site that suggests your statistics are wrong - "AN ILL WIND - AN OBJECTION AGAINST WINDFARMS IN IRELAND" http://www.geocities.com/nigbarnes/ "The electricity produced by windfarms is significant. FALSE. A glance at the table summarising power outputs internationally shows how pathetically small this contribution is. This amount will gradually grind to a halt in the face of growing adverse public opinion, and the dwindling of available sites (it is already difficult to get permits in Germany). The small amounts of electricity produced is illustrated by the fact that it would take 1904 new 750kW wind turbines operating at 28% capacity factor to produce as much electricity as one 500MW gas-fired combined cycle base-load generating plant with an 80% capacity factor." Another site - talking about W. Denmark "During 2003, the annual production of renewable energy (mainly wind power) in the region was numerically equivalent to about 20.7% of power demand (Bülow, 2004a) (i.e. similar to UK aspirations for 2020). However, at its times of generation, about 84% of the wind power was surplus to local demand (White, 2004; Sharman, 2004) and had to be exported to the much larger power systems of Norway, Sweden and/or Germany, primarily to maintain stability of frequency and voltage in the Danish grid. <b>This implies that over the period of 2003 under 4% of the region's demand for electrical power was directly provided by wind resources</b>, the bulk of requirements being met by carbon-emitting central and local CHP generators, some of which operated sub-optimally as backup for the wind power for much of the time. http://www.dartdorset.org/West%20Danish%20wind%20power%20lessons%20for%20the%20UK.pdf Here are plenty of links by those who don't agree with your views of wind farms - http://www.dartdorset.org/html/links.html including one to a report - "Danish wind boss admits: Wind-power hasn't cut Denmark's CO2 emissions."
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smallblueplanet 472 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 14:12
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That could be plenty of time to research alternatives.....or kill a few species forever.
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smallblueplanet 472 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 14:14
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Where is the information showing the people of Lewis are for this HUGE (biggest in the world?) wind farm? I've only seen sites against it or demanding the right to self-determinism.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Jan 02, 2005, 14:26
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"However, at its times of generation, about 84% of the wind power was surplus to local demand (White, 2004; Sharman, 2004) and had to be exported to the much larger power systems of Norway, Sweden and/or Germany, primarily to maintain stability of frequency and voltage in the Danish grid." That's just sloppy management isn't it. The 4% figure is a twisted one, too. The other generators were also providing power at these times, who's to say it wasn't them that were over producing when the wind turbines were at full tilt? Why weren't other generators slowed down? And although the future will see much more locally produced power, what's wrong with exporting it when you can? At least the nasty polluting generators in Norway, Sweden and/or Germany weren't having to churn out quite so much crap for a while. And 20-35 years isn't all that long. I've been around longer than that and there hasn't been very large improvements in the systems in my lifetime. If using current renewable energy sources prolongs this period to 50-75 years then it has to be a better option than doing nothing. At least by adopting these now we have a better chance at finding an alternative, long lasting solution.
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