wideford
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Re: ludowanus
Jul 30, 2004, 18:18
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Lleu Llaw Gyffes you were thinking of, hence the lapsus keyboardis.
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TomBo
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Re: ludowanus
Jul 30, 2004, 18:43
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that was it ;)
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TomBo
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lughnasadh salutations one and all!
Jul 30, 2004, 18:44
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"little gems of information have a habit of turning up at serendipidous times, and it never ceases to amaze me!"
especially given that it's lughnasadh tomorrow
hail Odin!
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TomBo
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Re: lughnasadh salutations one and all!
Jul 30, 2004, 18:46
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oh bugger, I mean the day after tomorrow
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FourWinds
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Re: lughnasadh salutations one and all!
Jul 30, 2004, 19:21
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And I shall be standing a little hill down the road called 'Lugg' to try and find out why! I think I know already and it will be a stunner if I'm right!
Joyce says that the name 'Lugg' derives from the Irish for a 'boggy hollow'. I say why the hell is a hill called 'boggy hollow'? U-Know!
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wideford
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Re: lughnasadh salutations one and all!
Jul 30, 2004, 23:10
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Which gives me the opportunity to say that in an article in "The Cauldron" that arrived today I discovered modern research says it is not Lugh's festival but instead 'the festival at which law judgements are given'.
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TomBo
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llew's llaw
Jul 31, 2004, 06:48
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"modern research says it is not Lugh's festival but instead 'the festival at which law judgements are given'."
This research is suffering from myopia! It's looking at a painting through a magnifying glass. It's seeing one tiny detail in great detail but has utterly lost sight of the bigger picture. The key questions are:
1. why is the word "law" so similar to the names "lugh" and "llew llaw"?
2. why are judges called m'lud?
It should be remembered that Odin was a divine judge, daily "giving judgement" at the foot of Yggdrasil.
In short, I'd say it was both Lugh's festival and 'the festival at which law judgements were given' - the two are not at all mutually exclusive and it's not an either/or situation.
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TomBo
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balder, balor, lugh, loki & louhi
Jul 31, 2004, 07:26
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"Pol was the Saxon name of Balder, the Norse dieing / resurrecting light god"
"the possible ruins of a Diana and Apollo temple"
Interesting. One of the major differences between Odin of the Eddas and Lugh is that Lugh has certain solar connotations - I'd argue that his name is behind words like "light", "luminescent" and "lustre". The Eddas, however, state that Odin and Loki are "blood brothers", and they sometimes seem so closely related as to almost be one figure. It's my view that Odin and Loki are descended from the same earlier deity (Ur-Odin, let's call him). Balder, on the other hand I'd argue to be descended from a more ancient solar deity called Baal (try not to think Phoenican Baal, but more Balor of the Evil Eye in Irish myth). In the Eddas Balder is killed because of Loki's machinations. Parallels can be found in Irish myth, I understand, where Lugh supplants Balor (need to look into that one a bit more mind you). I read this as essentially a myth remembering an early Sun cult (the Baal cult) being supplanted by a later one (the Lugh cult). Lugh has a lot in common with Apollo. Whilst we're on the subject, the Odin-Loki relationship is best understood within the context of the Wainamoinen-Louhi relationship in Sami Finland's Kalevala, which I believe to be truer to the Ur-Odinist root than the Eddas. The tale of Louhi's theft of the Sun (she - and yes, that's she - hides it in "a copper coloured mountain" for several months) is essentially a solar myth, explaining the utter absence of the Sun during the winter months (it remains dark 24 hours a day during winter, that far north).
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TomBo
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Re: balder, balor, lugh, loki & louhi
Jul 31, 2004, 07:28
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I should make myself clear. I believe loki and louhi to be the Scando-Germanic Lugh/Llew Llaw, and also that all of them are descended from the same Ur-deity as Odin and Wainamoinen.
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TomBo
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Re: balder, balor, lugh, loki & louhi
Jul 31, 2004, 08:07
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a couple more loose ends:
Perhaps the difference between Balder/Balor and Lugh/Loki/Louhi, and also the reason that the latter supplanted the former, is that Baal was specifically a solar deity whilst Lud was, like Apollo, a god of light? Just a thought - but certain Lughnar language is suggestive of the Moon, not the Sun.
Also, the following question is very relevant: if Lugh/Llew/Loki/Louhi are the descendants of the same ancestor as the Norse Odin and the Sami Wainamoinen, then why do the former have solar associations whilst the latter don't? I dunno - as I say, I'm still researching. But I would say that ALL dying and resurrected gods can be argued to have their roots in the solar cycle (even those ones who are more to do with vegetation, since the vegetation's cycle of growth and decay is determined by the solar year).
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