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Steve Gray 931 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 00:18
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Yes, thanks Nigel, I enjoyed reading it too. I'm very much an analyst, a rationaliser, a scientist, yet I am aware of a sense of spirituality (in a non-religious way); of feelings that transcend reason, and yet I find no conflict in this duality. There are places (usually ancient) that inspire a great sense of connectedness; stone circles, tombs, ruins, ancient forests, caves, mountains, water in all it's forms. As a scientist, I am happy to accept that there are things I don't know, things I can't explain. That doesn't stop me from wanting to know, from seeking to explain. After all, science is a quest for knowledge; if we know everything, science itself ceases to have meaning. What really gets my goat, though, is when people state as fact things that are just not true, and this is where I concur with 4W. There's a big difference between saying "When I stand here amongst these stones I feel a great sense of power" on the one hand, and "these stones radiate power" on the other. The former is a subjective expression that appeals to my spirituality. The latter is an objective statement that offends my rationality. Am I a skeptic? ... Yes. Am I a cynic? ... When necessary. Am I a Megarak? ... No, I don't think so.
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 07:24
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http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/image.php?image_id=19712 I can look at stones like this and know that some extreme devotion drove somebody to have it carved (it's La Tene Bronze Age, so the carver could well have been devoted to gold, but the person who commisioned it probably did it for another reason - although it could just be a Bronze Age garden gnome!). I can sit and follow its patterns and get lost in their beauty and it moves me; emotionally. I choose not to call that 'spirituality' but 'appreciation'. Is there a difference? To some I don't think there is, but that's their take on it; mine is different. No one anything about this stone, but I have seen people tell how it was used!! Steve, your 'feeling of power vs radiating power' thing is spot on.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 08:48
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You’re both a bit hard on those who say things like “"these stones radiate power". Fair enough, if it’s said with the certainty of Denkeworld… “it’s the emission of ZX24 magnetism, known to me and suppressed by jealous physicists”, then I’m with you. But most people use the phrase metaphorically or poetically, and mean no more than that they are experiencing a reaction to them, as you do. But they don’t try to define it, other than perhaps to refer to the spiritual. Whereas the instinct of a scientist is to pin it down, or at least to assume that if it could be pinned down it would lie firmly within the realms of science. To think like that lays the scientist open to a charge of Denkelike arrogance. Science speculates an infinity of possibilities, all contained within itself. Tombolism, on the other hand, is an attitude of mind that’s appropriately humble for creatures that are mere specs in an infinite universe. It is open to speculation without pre-conditions or, to put it how Tombo puts it, to Imagination. Such a world is much bigger and more fun than the world of science. What’s more, and this should appeal to scientists, it’s much more solidly rooted in logic!
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:12
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Forgive me. I was refering to the This-stone-radiates-a-cosmic-energy-while-holding-hands-over-it-with-eyes-closed-and-in-a-trance-brigade. I never see a site as just the stones. A site is made up of the stones, the setting, the landscape, the weather, the other people there at the time of visit etc. To sum up a feeling at a site by saying 'the stones give off power' if they mean 'the site makes me tingle' is, in my view, more short sighted than my 'shit this place is good' approach. Trying to attach the 'power' to the stones (which many do), to me, is madness. In many cases, the stones were brought to a place where they could highlight the 'power' of a place, where they could make a statement that the place is special. You'd know it if the stones weren't there, but you'd probably not go there if the stones weren't there to attract your attention.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:25
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I have another pebble to toss into the pond. The energy at stones.. "it's the energy maan"...maybe it really exists, scientifically: kinetic energy. Perhaps we sometimes react subconsciously to the realization of the work energy that's gone into getting them there and getting them upright. The Stonehengineers can help research this issue!....
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Jane 3024 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:29
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Yes! Completely, 4Ws. For me it's about their position in the landscape as much as anything, as sculptural-forms-with-history-bolted-on which gives the energy. But to believe that the rocks actually radiate power is not something I can sign up to. They are, in the end, merely big old rocks.
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:35
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Oh really? So does nothing radiate power? Paintings, sculpture, architecture, cloudscapes, the sea, microwave ovens? (OK, scrub that last one). Cause and effect, yet no transmission?! What a mystical universe you inhabit!! Best wishes from the Stirrer.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:46
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blimey. I'd already written something concerning the same topic but didin't dare post it. And now I realise it was utterly crap compared to the reasoned arguments put forth by the supreme essayist himself. phew. Go Tombo!!
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Jane 3024 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:46
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Grrrrr! No! (you've wound me up now, you bastard, swifty!) On your list, Nige, nothing *actually*, *intrinsically* radiates power except for the microwave. A projection of one's own emotions and experiences upon and object can create a *sense* of power, but the object in itself has no means to do this. Isn't this the mystery what makes art art? And why we are all so intrigued by big old rocks in the landscape? There are works of art that have the power to stop me in my tracks, make me sob uncontrollably, and talk to the most secret parts of my mind, but ultimately all they are are canvas and pigments and oils. It's the 'je ne sais quoi' created by the artist coupled with one's own input that creates the magic and power. Hugs J x
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 23, 2003, 09:52
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Well, I think your 'je ne sais quoi' is mystical radiation. What do you think it is?
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