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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:46
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nigelswift wrote: " they would have no understanding of a 4 th dimension of time or any dimension for that matter" Now there you're as wrong as a completely wrong person, but its irrelevant - what Im saying is that when we look at that panel it is many thousands of years deep whereas back then it was much younger and had a lot of the marks missing. How then can the marks in toto be said to relate to any sort of intentionality back then? It can't can it? They would understand that over "time" things change and would maybe like to "mark" these changes in some way, therefore creating a panel that also was built up and changed over time.
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harestonesdown 1067 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:49
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bladup wrote: Oh i do!!! Everyone does know that mr Cope was a big tripper in his day I wonder if that accounts for the colour of his present vehicle. ? Terrible colour that. ;)
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harestonesdown 1067 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:50
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nigelswift wrote: "3000's the most i've had, and i'm one of the sanest and healthest 38 years old you could wish to meet" Hahahahaha! Thats one of the finest lines in comedy history! "i can guarantee that over a 1000 it doesn't matter, eg a 1000 is the same as 3000" Ummm, why did you have 3,000 then? Also, I can hardly visualise 3,000 mushrooms, let alone imagine eating them. What do you do, make them into soup? Doesnt it get a bit unpleasant after the fifth bowl? Do you have to add lots of salt? (Salt is bad for you). Sorry if I seem to be taking the Mick, someone eating 3000 mushrooms in one go is so out of my life experience I just have to ask questions. Lol. You steep them and make a tea.
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tiompan 5758 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:50
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Rhiannon wrote: So if they were carving the symbols / shapes over an extended period of time, that might make a lot of sense, connecting one cycle to another. Maybe if you were nomadic, only passing a particular outcrop once every year, then you would indeed add to it (casually or in some important ritual) every year, to mark that you'd been there. Or whatever. Does that not sound feasible? Of course it does , just not very romantic . You mentioned , obliquely , Benny Shanon . A good experienced writer on Ayahuasca , hallucination and realting to this thread , noesis .It has been a fascination a long time and not usually broached in this forum .I agree with Shanon findings , and have seen the same results time and again . No matter how positively life transforming and beneficial some drug induced experiences may be they can result in the experiencer feeling they now know something that is beyond the experience of their peers .This noesis leads to a stronger ego and a belief that their visions are a glimpse into a reality denied to their own and thus everyone else's everyday consciousness .Whilst Shanon accepts the postive effects of A . he denies that it leads to any real knowledge other than of ourselves. Most of us soon learn to avoid that trap it was more common a few decades ago but it's still there . You might believe that you can communicate with animals whilst tripping (or pissed for that matter) or play like a god but you didn't the recordings prove that . Some still fall for it though . "Get out of it and you'll see " , fine , but try the other insight methods too .
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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:51
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tjj wrote: bladup wrote: tjj wrote: Rhiannon wrote: frankly I think 100 would be more than ample, I can't imagine I'd ever find my way home again if I took 1000 :) Ye gods, 100!! ... Please don't think I'm being a fuddyduddy - I've been following this discussion with great interest and am impressed at the patience of the answers given. My message to Bladup is clear your mind, do some meditating if helps but do stop taking hallucinogens - I believe they have a long term effect on your mental faculties (someone's got to say it). I bet i'm so far from what you think i'm like. I could probably say the same thing Bladup ... I probably said a lot less about myself on this forum than you have. I can tell you this though, I've seen enough good, talented people ruin their lives by taking 'mind altering substances' of various forms. I'm not preaching - really I'm not, just saying there is enough magic and wonder out there to observe and appreciate without the help of anything 'extra'. I know you think so too because I've see your art work and some of your photos. You've mentioned your children a few times - will it be ok for them to follow your example too. I come from the same place in life as cope i was a knobhead until i opened my mind, substances do ruin some peoples lives but at the other end they are sometimes the making of some people, have you read cope's autobiographies as they show this better than i could ever dream of, if the answers no, i strongly advise you do, it will help you to better understand what i'm saying.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:54
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nigelswift wrote: "3000's the most i've had, and i'm one of the sanest and healthest 38 years old you could wish to meet" Hahahahaha! Thats one of the finest lines in comedy history! "i can guarantee that over a 1000 it doesn't matter, eg a 1000 is the same as 3000" Ummm, why did you have 3,000 then? Also, I can hardly visualise 3,000 mushrooms, let alone imagine eating them. What do you do, make them into soup? Doesnt it get a bit unpleasant after the fifth bowl? Do you have to add lots of salt? (Salt is bad for you). Sorry if I seem to be taking the Mick, someone eating 3000 mushrooms in one go is so out of my life experience I just have to ask questions. I was finding out what number the effects stop, it's a about a 1000, so i did go a little past that but like i said it doesn't matter past a 1000 anyway.
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tjj 3606 posts |
Edited Sep 14, 2012, 16:55
Sep 14, 2012, 16:54
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bladup wrote: tjj wrote: bladup wrote: tjj wrote: Rhiannon wrote: frankly I think 100 would be more than ample, I can't imagine I'd ever find my way home again if I took 1000 :) Ye gods, 100!! ... Please don't think I'm being a fuddyduddy - I've been following this discussion with great interest and am impressed at the patience of the answers given. My message to Bladup is clear your mind, do some meditating if helps but do stop taking hallucinogens - I believe they have a long term effect on your mental faculties (someone's got to say it). I bet i'm so far from what you think i'm like. I could probably say the same thing Bladup ... I probably said a lot less about myself on this forum than you have. I can tell you this though, I've seen enough good, talented people ruin their lives by taking 'mind altering substances' of various forms. I'm not preaching - really I'm not, just saying there is enough magic and wonder out there to observe and appreciate without the help of anything 'extra'. I know you think so too because I've see your art work and some of your photos. You've mentioned your children a few times - will it be ok for them to follow your example too. I come from the same place in life as cope i was a knobhead until i opened my mind, substances do ruin some peoples lives but at the other end they are sometimes the making of some people, have you read cope's autobiographies as they show this better than i could ever dream of, if the answers no, i strongly advise you do, it will help you to better understand what i'm saying. No I haven't got around to it yet ... will make a point of doing so. Thank you!
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nigelswift 8112 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:55
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"hey would understand that over "time" things change and would maybe like to "mark" these changes in some way, therefore creating a panel that also was built up and changed over time." Yes indeed, I can accept that, but it does rule out a lot of things that dont change much - stars and springs for instance. But there's a fifth dimension on many panels too. It can be seen in the fact that some older motifs appear to be vandalistically overwritten by newer ones. In other words, there's a "respect" dimension - the meaning and importance of the marks appears to change over time, i.e. half the marks we see cant possibly be connected in time or intention to the other half.
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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:57
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Evergreen Dazed wrote: bladup wrote: Rhiannon wrote: I think you're being too hasty. I think the carvers would have (possibly) had a more close relationship with time than us because they'd have necessarily have had to be aware of cyclical changes with the seasons - it'd have affected where they could find their food and what food they could eat. And imagine how darkness would curtail your goings-about when you couldn't flick a light switch on. So if they were carving the symbols / shapes over an extended period of time, that might make a lot of sense, connecting one cycle to another. Maybe if you were nomadic, only passing a particular outcrop once every year, then you would indeed add to it (casually or in some important ritual) every year, to mark that you'd been there. Or whatever. Does that not sound feasible? There life span was so short, they would have been to busy living day to day, that's the beauty of what i'm saying, the regional maps WOULD/COULD help them day to day, if the landscapes are still natural i can still use them [the panels], this knowledge comes from within me, it's not from books, people were still moving around a little bit more in these landscapes than a lot of you seem to think, not everyone started farming, in the same way we're not all farmers now. bladup, I know ive asked before, but any chance of a photo of a panel and marked map so we can see exactly what you mean? It'd help a great deal. Are you trying to nick my pension as these will be the books [or whatever it is the future] i might write when i'm older and my legs have gone?
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bladup 1986 posts |
Sep 14, 2012, 16:59
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nigelswift wrote: "hey would understand that over "time" things change and would maybe like to "mark" these changes in some way, therefore creating a panel that also was built up and changed over time." Yes indeed, I can accept that, but it does rule out a lot of things that dont change much - stars and springs for instance. But there's a fifth dimension on many panels too. It can be seen in the fact that some older motifs appear to be vandalistically overwritten by newer ones. In other words, there's a "respect" dimension - the meaning and importance of the marks appears to change over time, i.e. half the marks we see cant possibly be connected in time or intention to the other half. They may be trying to get rid of something that was once in the landscape but has now gone.
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