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The Modern Antiquarian Forum » Hampshire » Witch Burial Site Under Threat |
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goffik 3926 posts |
Jul 29, 2009, 10:55
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Seventhorn Inn wrote: Do have a look round Curdridge, I'd be interested to know what you think and what you might find out. Not strictly 'prehistoric' perhaps, although a Bronze Age urn was found on Kitnocks Hill in the nineteenth century, which is now in the Winchester Museum. I do wonder, though, whether some of these witch stories convey echoes of primeval goddesses - if Curdridge was in Ireland would we be talking about 'the Cailleach' or a Sidh woman? Bingo! The Bronze Age urn means it has possible/probable prehistoric provenance, so I don't feel bad talking about it now! ;) I must say I'm intrigued, and will certainly be doing some snooping on the subject... I did indeed go the route you suggested (IE the other way!) but noticed the hill mentioned on the map to the right of where we were. I can't help but think, as you've alluded to, that the "witch" legend could have older roots. I'm sure there's lots of demon/witch/monster stories around that were probably created to stop people visiting the site or worshipping at an old temple or sacred spot. Those bloomin' christians, eh? ;) I've not seen the dew pond on Old Winchester Hill! Or rather I saw what I presumed was a dew pond but it wasn't surrounded by trees or owt. Maybe there's more than one? I'd love to hear more info about it though - where abouts on the hill is it? Our problem is that our young boy can't walk as far as we'd like, so by the time we get to the hill, he's had enough, so exploring is out of the question! I think an earlier start and a picnic might solve that one... :) G x
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Cheema Deepinder 46 posts |
Aug 01, 2009, 14:35
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I dannae think in civil law trespassers can be prosecuted (I suppose they can be sued). This berk is appealling against his own application to develop the site - which has been granted? I am reading this correct?? What does he want to do with the planning permission that he has obtained?
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wideford 1086 posts |
Aug 01, 2009, 14:37
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Cheema Deepinder wrote: I dannae think in civil law trespassers can be prosecuted (I suppose they can be sued). This berk is appealling against his own application to develop the site - which has been granted? I am reading this correct?? What does he want to do with the planning permission that he has obtained? Speculate, like the OIC with the WWII 'Black Building'
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Simon Crook 9 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 00:28
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Hello, I've re-registered to this forum under my real name , though I opened this particular thread on the threat to the reputed burial place of Kitty Nocks under the pseudonym of Seventhorn Inn (after a derelict pub on the A3 near Hindhead - loads of 'leylines' through it, I shouldn't wonder...). I wasn't very cognisant of 'web etiquette' then and I know I put a few people's backs up about being a 'new poster' trying to start a 'bandwagon' with this thread, even attracting a hostile 'stalker' from the Pagan Network website (presumably)... (the Kitnocks thread I started there was deleted a long time ago... for whatever reason). So, what brings me to these parts, again? (Cripes! I've just discovered I'm going to have to post this gibberish before replying to it myself so I can share the links I would've put in this post! Sorry). Here's a bit of background (with the full moon coming up soon - auspicious time). I was wrong. Kitty Nocks is not a 'witch' - well, not your flying on a broomstick/five-bar gate/three-legged stool kind,though maybe an inspiration to those mortal women... no, she's more of your 'White Lady' ghost - a folk memory of a water nymph/funerary/mother goddess-type figure, perhaps? I got one or two other details wrong,too, in my haste to flag up what was going on (the threat very much remains, as will be shown). However, it's been a bit complicated by someone's dilettantish appropriation of some of the inaccurate information I put up in the original post on this thread - and it's my first encounter with the underworld of New Age quasi-vanity publishing (I am contacting the publisher over this issue)... So, basically the two links I'm posting up after this are to do with plagiarism off this site (uncredited, by definition), a matter of putting the record straight (I'm not that hung up about copyright, only about someone claiming copyright on something they've parasited from), as well as a more accurate, up-to-date account of what's going on with Kitty Nocks...
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Simon Crook 9 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 00:32
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OK, this link is to do with the plagiarism - I'll come clean, it's off my blog http://thegrammarofmatter.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/anyone-can-write-a-book-2/
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Simon Crook 9 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 00:43
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This is a link to my article to the current(ish) state of play... http://thegrammarofmatter.wordpress.com/the-enchantments-of-kitnocks-hill/ There's much more to be said. I could kick myself for not being involved in the application and subsequent public inquiry to have the Triangle registered as a village green (which was rejected) - there were too many bad things going on in my life at the time and I was too distracted, not that any involvement would have swung it the right way... Two objections now to Winchester City Council's 'Footpath Stopping-Up Order' - if it's granted, development can proceed unimpeded...
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moss 2897 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 07:25
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Simon Crook wrote: This is a link to my article to the current(ish) state of play... http://thegrammarofmatter.wordpress.com/the-enchantments-of-kitnocks-hill/ There's much more to be said. I could kick myself for not being involved in the application and subsequent public inquiry to have the Triangle registered as a village green (which was rejected) - there were too many bad things going on in my life at the time and I was too distracted, not that any involvement would have swung it the right way... Two objections now to Winchester City Council's 'Footpath Stopping-Up Order' - if it's granted, development can proceed unimpeded... Hi, Excellent read, don't know why you have not written and published ;) I cannot comment on the 'land grab' of the triangle but the news yesterday is that Osbourne is going back to his relaxation of planning laws does not bode good. As for plagariasm, that is bad, if you want to go further a letter either to publisher or author might help, at least she will think twice, or write the better book youself. Problem is of course blog writing as well, we make ourselves public and therefore people can cut and copy without decent acknowledgment, reference to source is important.....
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 07:29
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Wow that's quite some analysis, very interesting. What are they hoping to build on the triangle? If it's wet enough for sphagnum and rushes it sounds inconveniently wet (the moss bore in me wonders if it's really sphagnum. But I am very fond of moss so just ignore me there). I think it's a terrible shame if they do. And you shouldn't beat yourself up for not making more fuss before, if you've researched the story and thought about it so hard since, then you're doing grand work to highlight why the place is special and should be saved. I don't know how much weight council planning offices give to folklore officially, probably not much unfortunately. But if it's a way of drumming up support from other local people then it might sway things a bit indirectly. Have you gone to the local newspaper, they'd probably love such a story? I reckon you should if you haven't done so, it'd really get your message out there locally. I really don't know why you got such a rough ride on this thread, was that 'amber lady' your pagan stalker? I don't remember seeing her before or since on the forum. And you have my sympathies about the plagiarism, how utterly galling. It doesn't take a minute to credit someone. Interesting though that the version they're propagating now, you've subsequently found wasn't the "true" version. So out it goes into the world to get repeated.
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Simon Crook 9 posts |
Edited Aug 09, 2012, 22:06
Aug 01, 2012, 11:05
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Hi Moss, Hi Rhiannon, Thank you for your kind replies... I wasn't sure what to expect after the last time. Yes 'amber lady' was the one - similar modus operandi to a certain poster (an admin, I think) on PN. In fact, I drew 30 times more hostility when I raised the Kitnocks issue on a Pagan Network forum and couldn't fathom why, even being accused of being a Discordian troll, a hippie, would-be eco-warrior, etc. Actually, I've got my own ideas why the admins there were generally hostile (not all were), but that would be a distraction... I think it's sphagnum... comparing the pictures I took with other pictures of the real thing. The owner wants to build a terrace of three houses - one three-bedroomed and two two-bedroomed, a small plot to cram these in, so much potential for irreversible damage. I contacted the Local paper, but after an initial flurry of interest they seem to have gone quiet. The Council are determined that the development should proceed, hence the 'Footpath-Stopping-Up Order'. The objections are delaying development. There is much local concern, but it's quite muted, as the developer is a local employer (the building trade, also owns Shedfield Equestrian down the road). Thanks again.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Aug 01, 2012, 13:10
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It's a real shame because rather boils down to someone's greed to make money out of sticking houses on it and selling them. Which many people will say is perfectly legitimate of course. But I prefer greenery and trees and there are surely loads of places that are already ruined that you can stick houses on. I had a read of the document about trying to have it registered as a village green, there were lots of people supporting it weren't there. If it's really as boggy as you suggest perhaps they'll be put off by that, surely added work and money to sort out, who wants to live in a swamp with their foundations sinking. Or maybe you can find some rare newts or something...
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