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Sin Agog
Sin Agog
2253 posts

Edited Sep 23, 2014, 12:13
Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 11:57
Markoid wrote:
OK, It's pop or metal.

1) It's not very good
2) It's manufactured by the music biz
3) They have metal musicians behind them old enough to be their grandfathers.
4) Are they X - Factor rejects?
5) See 1). It's not very good.
6) Are they being exploited
7) The are nowhere near SHONEN KNIFE
8) I rest my case!



1) Subjective, innit.
2) If said music biz isn't churning out schmaltzy ballads, but willing to draw upon any number of supposedly uncommercial, idiosyncratic elements, instead of presupposing that the public likes its product safe and flat, I'm cool with that particular biznezz plan.
3) I don't recall seeing a rule saying that all musicians have to be exactly the same age (or, on a stretch, born within two weeks of each other).
4) There's something in Japan called Idol music, which hails back to the late '70s. On the surface, it seems to be a Monkees/X-Factor sort of thang, but many of these groups have been encouraged to exercise their weird side, or have latched onto some strange, inspired bit of non-Eastern arcana (reason why that Liverpudlian group, Big In Japan, named themselves that, and that final scene in Spinal Tap), and utilise them in a way they never were in their home country. There are saccharine examples of this music, but most of what I've heard has been full of élan and sprightliness.
5) See 1).
6) Hell naw. There are some savvy fucking kids out there in Japan. Maybe the producers are pushing some of the older genre mash-ups onto them, but it seems all the singers in these videos and albums love what they're doing. There's a concept in Japan called Tatamae and Honne. These are the Public Self you show to other people and strangers- which in Japan's case can sometimes seem practically catatonic- and the more feral private expressions. Compartmentalizing these two sides (which I'm sure the English in particular can relate to) has resulted in some really crazy artistic outpourings from Japan. These girls are getting to express their Honne side the way they never would elsewhere.
7) I like Shonen Knife well enough. They're the female Ramones, right? But they're one of the most Western-friendly groups to come out of Japan. Straightahead guitar-drums-bass-vocals with minimum production. They do not have that little sprinkle of magic J-dust which so much of Nippon's output is overloaded with. I think it's a little ugly how a barefaced imitation of a Western band is s'posed to supersede all else from Japan. (I will admit, I prefer their first two albums to Babymetal, but they still come nowhere near the best J-Pop I've heard).
8) It seems a bit like your case was, "I don't like it ergo no one should". As to Babymetal, it took me a fair bit of time to warm to them, as I can't stand those turgid metal guitars draining the life out of anything they grace, but the hooks shone through. Plus, their album isn't all metal at all. I even recall a bit of cod-reggae on there (though it's better than that sounds).
Markoid
Markoid
1621 posts

Edited Sep 23, 2014, 12:26
Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 12:26
On answer to
8) They were originally marketed as a metal band. Nobody believed that. So what we have are The Japanese Spice Girls now. I can hear and see a vision Damo Suzuki throwing up to that idea of complete marketism in music.
Markoid
Markoid
1621 posts

Edited Sep 23, 2014, 12:49
Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 12:47
Sin Agog wrote:
Markoid wrote:
OK, It's pop or metal.

1) It's not very good
2) It's manufactured by the music biz
3) They have metal musicians behind them old enough to be their grandfathers.
4) Are they X - Factor rejects?
5) See 1). It's not very good.
6) Are they being exploited
7) The are nowhere near SHONEN KNIFE
8) I rest my case!



1) Subjective, innit.
2) If said music biz isn't churning out schmaltzy ballads, but willing to draw upon any number of supposedly uncommercial, idiosyncratic elements, instead of presupposing that the public likes its product safe and flat, I'm cool with that particular biznezz plan.
3) I don't recall seeing a rule saying that all musicians have to be exactly the same age (or, on a stretch, born within two weeks of each other).
4) There's something in Japan called Idol music, which hails back to the late '70s. On the surface, it seems to be a Monkees/X-Factor sort of thang, but many of these groups have been encouraged to exercise their weird side, or have latched onto some strange, inspired bit of non-Eastern arcana (reason why that Liverpudlian group, Big In Japan, named themselves that, and that final scene in Spinal Tap), and utilise them in a way they never were in their home country. There are saccharine examples of this music, but most of what I've heard has been full of élan and sprightliness.
5) See 1).
6) Hell naw. There are some savvy fucking kids out there in Japan. Maybe the producers are pushing some of the older genre mash-ups onto them, but it seems all the singers in these videos and albums love what they're doing. There's a concept in Japan called Tatamae and Honne. These are the Public Self you show to other people and strangers- which in Japan's case can sometimes seem practically catatonic- and the more feral private expressions. Compartmentalizing these two sides (which I'm sure the English in particular can relate to) has resulted in some really crazy artistic outpourings from Japan. These girls are getting to express their Honne side the way they never would elsewhere.
7) I like Shonen Knife well enough. They're the female Ramones, right? But they're one of the most Western-friendly groups to come out of Japan. Straightahead guitar-drums-bass-vocals with minimum production. They do not have that little sprinkle of magic J-dust which so much of Nippon's output is overloaded with. I think it's a little ugly how a barefaced imitation of a Western band is s'posed to supersede all else from Japan. (I will admit, I prefer their first two albums to Babymetal, but they still come nowhere near the best J-Pop I've heard).
8) It seems a bit like your case was, "I don't like it ergo no one should". As to Babymetal, it took me a fair bit of time to warm to them, as I can't stand those turgid metal guitars draining the life out of anything they grace, but the hooks shone through. Plus, their album isn't all metal at all. I even recall a bit of cod-reggae on there (though it's better than that sounds).


In answer to point 6). I very much do understand Japanese pop music. Having visited there myself I do understand it's culture and subcultures and a reasonable part of the country's history and loyalty to Japan. But Western pop music? Surely they can do better than that?
Sin Agog
Sin Agog
2253 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 12:53
When I first heard them a couple of years ago, I'm not sure there was any marketing going on at all. They were just this weird tweeny pop blast with metal riffs behind them on youtube. No idea how they've been marketed since. If they're doing well in the west, it would probably have to be because of the metal connection (and the internet, of course), because there's precious little Japanese pop that makes any headway outside of Japan (with the kitsch exception of Pink Lady from the '70s, and earlier than that Sukiyaki, the first cross-continental number one, with the exception of Telstar).
Markoid
Markoid
1621 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 13:08
Frank Chickens - They were pretty radical at the time in the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiELvMgIeZc

Anyway, gotta go to work now and integrate with other cultures. Nice having a yarn with you. Cheers.
Sin Agog
Sin Agog
2253 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 13:13
Pfft, dunno about Damo, but Can loved a bit of warped pop music. That's why most of them went onto work with weird Jap-Post-Punk-Popette Phew in the '80s. Honestly, there are so many other countries' pop scenes which need addressing before Japan's. I mean, one of their most popular girl groups, Momoiro Clover 7, recently put out a huge sci-fi, prog and dubstep-inflected epic pop album. They're hardly East 17.
Maldoror
Maldoror
720 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 18:00
Sin Agog wrote:
I genuinely love Idol Poppers Bis's collab with old-time Japanese Harsh Noise vets Hijokaiden, Bis Kaiden. It was one of my fave releases of last year. Here's their Jun Togawa cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVT-jsiPnw


Japanese coolness, just like Babymetal. :)
machineryelf
3681 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 19:56
even taking google translate into account that is pretty off the wall. All I've seen so far just show how tedious the new U2 is, it's all obviously pop factory fodder but done with an interesting twist, it's like we took Run DMC & Aerosmith and went 'no too different' and stopped but they just kept running with it making stranger and bigger cocktails. Strangely it reminds me a lot of the Cure circa love cats and all the mid 80s goths, but they all went RAWK instead of playing up their Roxy/VU roots. If nothing else you've got to respect the hours of practise Babymetal put in to get it just so on the spot.
billding68
billding68
1016 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 23, 2014, 20:57
For sure its not "organic" but its a hell of a lot of fun compared to the dredge we're being spoon fed in the U.S. Beyoncé,nikki minaj,Beber etc...what this has, at least for now is a certain unpredictability to it that the aforementioned do not possess.
Sin Agog
Sin Agog
2253 posts

Re: Babymetal!
Sep 24, 2014, 02:54
Maldoror wrote:
Sin Agog wrote:
I genuinely love Idol Poppers Bis's collab with old-time Japanese Harsh Noise vets Hijokaiden, Bis Kaiden. It was one of my fave releases of last year. Here's their Jun Togawa cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVT-jsiPnw


Japanese coolness, just like Babymetal. :)


If you like that, you'd prob dig Midori, too. They're more of a fusion of Hardcore Punk and Naked City-esque Jazz Skronk with J-Pop, but it works! (Actual song starts about 1.25 in I think): http://vimeo.com/104563003
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