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Unsung Forum » "How Selling Out Saved Indie Rock" |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 18, 2013, 18:32
Nov 18, 2013, 18:11
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billding68 wrote: This whole subject to me smacks of self importance and the cooler then thou mentality some people have.if you are a musician and you are selling your "product" for a profit haven't you in a way already sold out? Does it really matter in the big scheme of things really? Is worth argument really? People sell to make money is that bad? If I had the where with all to produce anything people wanted to buy fucking right id sell it! I agree. What I thought was interesting was the idea that indie music culture has an innate value and is an endangered species that needs protecting from commerce and has to somehow survive exposure to the big bad world of advertising.
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billding68 1016 posts |
Nov 18, 2013, 18:59
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IanB wrote: billding68 wrote: This whole subject to me smacks of self importance and the cooler then thou mentality some people have.if you are a musician and you are selling your "product" for a profit haven't you in a way already sold out? Does it really matter in the big scheme of things really? Is worth argument really? People sell to make money is that bad? If I had the where with all to produce anything people wanted to buy fucking right id sell it! I agree. What I thought was interesting was the idea that indie music culture has an innate value and is an endangered species that needs protecting from commerce and has to somehow survive exposure to the big bad world of advertising. Oh my God someone agreed with me! This is a first! Bless you or whatever! Thanks
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 18, 2013, 19:21
Nov 18, 2013, 19:14
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billding68 wrote: IanB wrote: billding68 wrote: This whole subject to me smacks of self importance and the cooler then thou mentality some people have.if you are a musician and you are selling your "product" for a profit haven't you in a way already sold out? Does it really matter in the big scheme of things really? Is worth argument really? People sell to make money is that bad? If I had the where with all to produce anything people wanted to buy fucking right id sell it! I agree. What I thought was interesting was the idea that indie music culture has an innate value and is an endangered species that needs protecting from commerce and has to somehow survive exposure to the big bad world of advertising. Oh my God someone agreed with me! This is a first! Bless you or whatever! Thanks Ha! I think the desire to make stuff that isn't built explicitly for the market is an impulse worth protecting but to codify / comodify something as "indie" and hang on to that is weird to me. I mean as soon as Billboard came up with a Modern Rock Chart or whatever it was called in the late 80s or early 90s all kinds of bands rushed to adapt their sound to fit in to a format that they thought would help them get radio play and success and money and such. That is kind of what I saw here around 1984/5. And then the majors starting signing all kinds of horrible indie landfill. By the same token there were some very good acts signed to majors who were snubbed by the NME and Melody Maker because they were flying the wrong colours. Anyway ....
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 19, 2013, 09:05
Nov 18, 2013, 19:17
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stray wrote: What the hell does Indie mean ? I know what it meant, but then it became a sound, and it had sub genres too, like 'jangle pop'. We clique. Indie labels identifying with a scene are responsible for this, much like electronic labels were. It's not a question of following the approaches of Majors, it's just what naturally happens, strata form. The trick for a label is to try and build themselves into such a way that they themselves don't crystalise. 4AD and Creation managed this, then.. ah.. see what happened there ? Same problem as Ninja Tune and Warp. At least when Touch Records noticed this happening to them they decided to just not be a record label anymore. That is interesting. True about Dischord too. What I was getting at was that they / Fugazi did business very differently. That otherness probably ossified into a house style (musical and corporate) at some point and would be unlikely to evolve further but I find Ian MacKaye pretty impressive in terms of his do-what-I-do matching up with his do-what-I-say. I know next to dick about dance music and electronic dance music in particular other than the records I own and most of those would be late 70s to early 80s so don't have much to offer there.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Nov 19, 2013, 15:33
Nov 19, 2013, 14:08
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Kid Calamity wrote: We need a new punk. Isn't that the role that Anonymous, LulzSec and (in a way) Occupy have been filling the last few years? Tilting at very big windmills and being socially, culturally and politically disruptive - sometimes constructively and sometimes not - seems very Punk Rock to me while actually achieving more and taking bigger personal risks than any Punk band I can think. Just because rock n roll has failed to be a rallying point it doesn't mean no one is rallying around something similar. At the Million Mask March gathering in Trafalgar Square all I could hear was Reggae and Dubstep which might speak volumes for how rock (punk or otherwise) is seen in terms of being a rebel music these days.
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Kid Calamity 9045 posts |
Edited Nov 19, 2013, 16:04
Nov 19, 2013, 15:49
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Indie's not indie, any more - just as Punk is hardly played by punks - or at least what we consider punks; the creative rule breaking, anti conformity mavericks - I don't mean an old bloke in a leather jacket with a logo painted on the back, I hasten to add. No, by that comment in my previous post, I obviously meant some sort of equivalent shake-up. Yes Ian, things like Occupy are definitely kicking against the pricks. And, with steps being made, by our governments, to put genies back into bottles on social networking and readdressing laws on gatherings, strikes and demonstrations, I reckon there still is a tangible 'punk' attitude, that they are clearly unnerved by.. Now, if we could get a suitable rule-bending musical style to soundtrack it. Must it be dubstep?
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Nov 19, 2013, 16:30
Nov 19, 2013, 16:22
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Kid Calamity wrote: Now, if we could get a suitable rule-bending musical style to soundtrack it. Must it be dubstep? Its taken many years, of not caring mostly cos what I heard was shit, but there is actually some good dubstep I've found. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU8j3DsOhrU Mind you, as I also say in this thread it's probably not called Dubstep this one now. Anyhow, yeah, Punch Drunk Records, worth your investigation. Edit : Also, for trainspotters, that track shows beyond all reasonable doubt that Dubstep came *mostly* out of the UK Garage scene. I think you're both overrating, nostalgically over playing punk and what it was a bit. It wasn't all that political outside of a handful of bands lets be honest. It was DIY first and foremost. It created the Dance scene that followed most obviously, which was pure DIY, and had a lot of old punks involved in it's inception. We're really not short of DIY artists/bands etc these days tbh. It's a matter of perception, direct action/revolutionary groups don't need soundtracks anymore. Also, even if they did, why would they need lyrics, let alone guitars ? ;) Okay, that paragraph is a bit of a troll. But the point is, anti-establishment activity is happening/increasing. An upturn is occurring, albeit in a wholly different and more abstract way than us old fucks really recognise.
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Kid Calamity 9045 posts |
Nov 19, 2013, 16:56
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I don't much like that one, either. To me, it's just a hard and cold sound. Very little human feel, to it. Sequencers apparently playing themselves. I want to hear a bass player's fingers.
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stray 2057 posts |
Nov 19, 2013, 17:10
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Kid Calamity wrote: I don't much like that one, either. To me, it's just a hard and cold sound. Very little human feel, to it. Sequencers apparently playing themselves. I want to hear a bass player's fingers. Hahaha.
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stray 2057 posts |
Nov 19, 2013, 17:19
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I'd rather ideas weren't limited by physical technical ability, nor that their expression be limited to those who have that ability. But then I would say that, being an old punk.
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