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Yes, it's important this time
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sanshee
sanshee
1080 posts

Edited May 03, 2012, 13:57
Yes, it's important this time
May 03, 2012, 13:42
I voted in the local council elections.
Whoopeedodoo, shades of shite and all that, means nowt. Yes.
But this time a 'protest vote' that means something. We need to quell the poisonous toad that is Salmond. Anything that allows him to make any 'inroads' has to be nipped right away.
I don't want the UK to break up, I have no dislike of English people at all, but he does. It's racist, and we don't like people like that here, do we? Do we? As it is, it takes me less time to get to Newcastle than it does many parts of Scotland.
Oh and then there's this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/may/03/what-of-bbc-in-devolved-scotland
I listen to R4 quite a bit, I've even got Vine on right now, and I enjoy the odd BBC4 doc, they tend to be splendid, at times. The alternative? Whatever they decide 'we've' to watch and a slew of programmes about 'Scotland?' Wha? It's fucking creepy.
I know some disagree completely, but I wonder if they've seen beyond the sweetener of council tax freezes and free prescriptions for ALL, regardless of wealth (a fucking disgrace actually). Unsustainable, and of course all funded by all this oil that's going to go on forever. Yes, all politicians are the same, and these elections are piddly small fry stuff, but I wish I had the luxury to be bored enough not to care.
x
Eduardo
Eduardo
375 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 12:34
I feel the same way about Welsh nationalists. They're interested in creating an elite of welsh speakers to be in charge of everything, which is different from serving the best interests of the people of Wales. Scotland is further down the line than Wales but the nationalists are regarding it as a kind of roadmap.

None of the Scots I've met seem remotely interested in independance, in fact a taxi driver in Perth launched into a 15 minute tirade about Alex Salmond last time I was there.
anthonyqkiernan
anthonyqkiernan
7087 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 13:59
Eduardo wrote:
None of the Scots I've met seem remotely interested in independance

We must meet sometime.
John Rice
John Rice
38 posts

Edited May 08, 2012, 14:07
Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 14:06
Eduardo wrote:
None of the Scots I've met seem remotely interested in independance, in fact a taxi driver in Perth launched into a 15 minute tirade about Alex Salmond last time I was there.

Well, a Scottish friend of mine is passionately in favour of independence and it's nothing to do with hating English people (he's married to one!) or Alex Salmond (he thinks Salmond a fool).

But it's got everything to do with the fact that for most of his life he's been subjected to tory policies despite Scotland having never voted tory in all that time. And if you ask me, that's a pretty damn good reason for wanting independence... you know, actually getting the government you vote for?

In 1979 less than a third of Scottish constituencies returned a tory candidate, yet still the Scots were saddled with Thatcher. In 1983, that number fell, yet still they had to endure Thatcher. In 1987, the tories won a total of 10 (out of 72) seats in Scotland. But still more Thatcher.

And then, a couple of years ago, the Scots returned exactly one tory MP to Westminster, yet they have Cameron as PM and Osborne holding the purse strings.

If I were Scottish, I wouldn't give a damn about what Alex Salmond has to say, but I would vote to change this farcical state of affairs.
anthonyqkiernan
anthonyqkiernan
7087 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 14:09
sanshee wrote:
It's racist

No it's not. 33 years of London based Tory rule has taken it's toll on a country that invariably votes the other way. Why not have that extra bit of autonomy? We'll all still be under the centralised government at Brussels

Have you seen how much of the BBCs output comes from Pacific Quay? I can assure you it won't all just start being made elsewhere. It's too big a business interest for it just to drop a whole chunk

That said, I'm not living in Scotland at the moment.
anthonyqkiernan
anthonyqkiernan
7087 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 14:11
What he said (more eloquently than me)
Toni Torino
2299 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 14:38
Tha's interesting; would Scotland be more inclined to remain in the union if a leftist centralized government were in power (Scotland must be the most left-leaning country in Europe)? After all, the same potential for having to accept whatever Westminster foisted upon you would be there. I hope the Outer Hebrides don't get all Liberal Democrat on yo' ass and try to strike out on their own, Passport To Pimlico-style! ;o)
John Rice
John Rice
38 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 15:22
I don't think it's about whether the Westminster government is left or right, but about the fact that it clearly doesn't have any correlation with the way the Scottish people vote. And hasn't had for the majority of my life, and I suspect most people reading this.

Of course, it's not like modern democracy really works for any of us, but in the case of Scotland, the failure is particularly blatant.
Eduardo
Eduardo
375 posts

Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 15:32
OK,I understand that. I'm all in favour of devolved government.

Nationalism is something else though, and I don't understand it at all. The need to pull up the drawbridge at the border. (Everything you say about unvoted Thatcher governance is true about North of England and Wales.) What's wrong with just increasing the extent of devolution?

Independance would not work for Wales. I can't say for Scotland, the economy has more going for it, maybe it could be feasible. We've got jack all in Wales. What we and Scotland have in common are nationalists with questionable agendas who want to be in power.
John Rice
John Rice
38 posts

Edited May 08, 2012, 18:57
Re: Yes, it's important this time
May 08, 2012, 15:46
Nationalism is generally a terrible thing in my view. But living under a government that only won a single parliamentary seat (out of more than 50) is also pretty terrible. In most places it would be called "tyranny". I'm not saying we're in Robert Mugabe territory of course. It's not the world's worst tyranny... but from a Scottish perspective it's certainly not democracy.

And I'm not sure "a bit more devolution" is going to solve that. Scotland will still end up paying taxes to a tory government that almost no Scottish person voted for. It's just not right. In exactly the same way that the Greeks, Irish and Portuguese are basically being ruled from Frankfurt at the moment by people they never voted for (it's not Berlin or Brussels calling the shots, but the Frankfurt-based ECB), the situation is fundamentally unjust.

I don't see - in the case of Scotland - any better solution than independence. And call me naive if you like, but if I were Scottish I would rather take the risk on independence than accept tyranny for economic reasons. Hell, it's working for the people of Iceland.
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