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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 16:36
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the other CPGB is called.....the CPGB! there are apparently two bunches claiming the same name. one of them has two members i think. my lot, uhhh, independent (libertarian communist, or socialist humanist, i cant decide) in the Socialist Alliance is my 'official' status. Only 25, hmmm, there must be more....you got the international Communit party, i always loved them, mmm, then there's all the maoist groups, ooh you could have fun with that lot... good luck! |
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 16:42
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I didn't phrase myself correctly. I do not deny its existance, but I refuse to be a part of it. And I refuse to be a part of it VERY LOUDLY INDEED !!!!! Obviously, this is a game that needs many players (at all levels of an unjustly tiered social system) and my self proclaimed veto-ing of the system can be seen by some as running from the nasty truth of it all. More so it can be seen as being as bad an attitude as the 'upper' class have, i.e. ignore it and it will go away. All I think is that by admitting or accepting that you are 'lower' class (by their definition) you are admitting that they are upper class. This only perpetuates the problem. I hope that if enough people thought and spoke, nay shouted, that they were classless then it might just catch on ... get my drift kinda thing? Am I being naive? Oh shit! I see it doesn't matter, an Eastenders star has cancer .. the world is doomed.
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 16:48
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'upper' and 'lower' are bullshit sociologist/boss classes of class (as it were). for me, the two distinctions are 'working' and 'ruling'. and i'm proud to be in the working camp - even if what i work at is crap
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 17:02
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1-25 b referred simply to possible food production, i doubt very much that there are enough other resources around to support that many people, but from what i have read, they should be able to eat. how? many things - one simply being a far smaller reliance upon meat, an incredibly inefficient use of resources. if the world were veggie (not that i'd want that for a milisecond - gimme bacon!!) i seem to recall that at least twice as much food could be produced immediately (but, aah, not swo much profit in it) masses of land now is left deliberately useless - think about the wastage involved in the CAP. more LABOUR intensive farming also brings massive benfits in productivity,and can be done with a reduction the use of chemical fertilizers etc. As for changing how we organise production, well, where to start.......'wealth' should be measured not by the amount of cars or diamonds or even julian cope records you own. and production should be reorganised to recognise that. as i said, socialised living means we could have a higher standard of living withpouit using more resources, greater effieciencied in the simple way that things work today could be introduced - but they are NOT PROFITABLE in todays world. The rise of the net, etc means we dont all need to own a copy of every cd, dvd etc, cos it will (probably sooner or later) be there on demand anyway, extension of the 'white bicycle' kinda scheme can make massive differences. its about ending the privatisation of the individual. yes we are all different, we are all individuals, but we have more in common than we have things that separate us. that can make a massive difference. and yes, its about recognising that we should be celebrating what might be called (i hate the word, but...) spiritual rather than the material sides of life, recognising the value of that. but lets not forget that WE can do that because WE live in the relatively affluent west, and even tho i am officially low paid (even tho i'm also officially a professional...hmmm) i'm still better off than 95% of the worlds population, for the vast vast majority of our world, the question is one of the very basic means to survive, not arguing over definitions of 'progress' or whatever
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grufty jim 1978 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 17:02
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working class or ruling class? well, i have no desire to rule others (though am free with my advice, i'll admit). but i don't think life should be "work" either. Defined by my job? Defined "as one who does a job"? jeez... if those are the two choices, then what a sorry and sad waste we've made of our cerebral cortices.
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 17:16
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it is sad isnt it thats kinda why i feel it is little short of a duty to do what one can to utterly change the nature of this society, so that we can indeed use our cerebral cortex for something a damn sight more useful than the crap we have to put up with now
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 04, 2002, 17:33
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not sure quite how you're defining green here...(or how i am entirely) but (sorry, but tired old) rant about the SWP just turning up at demo's to give out there placardshow do i keep letting myself get drawn into defending the swp even tho i'll agree with at least half your criticisms, and know they ae very full of shit in sooooo many ways i dunno ,but: 1)the notion that the SWP turn up late just to hand out placards n then sod off is just not true. i always had to make sure there were people there early, to set up stalls, talk to people, give out placards, sell papers, and (when relevant) to ensure things were safely stewarded and others informed what the demo is about. we did often bugger off early its true, cos the speeches were normally so fecking dull! 2)why shouldnt the SWP put its name on the top of the placards? its pretty easy to tear them off if you wanna do that (and it would also be very easy to make the banner in such a way that it couldnt be easilly torn off, but thats not the case). if they didnt do it, saomebody would definitely be having a go at them for 'hiding' and trying to sneak their placards out dishinestly - they just cant bloody win! 3)paper sellers going down the side of the demo - some do, most dont. no,i'm sorry its true. most SWp people will be IN the demo - you just cant see them cos they're inside, whilst the ones on the edges are blody obvious. and ythose people are useful - they let people on the pavement who arent in the demo know whats gpoing on and talk to them about it - i got lots of people to JOIN the demo doing just that. surely thats a good thing. a question - what dso you actually DO on a demo? these days i normally wander along the street join uin a few chants and chat to me mates. seems to me talking to other people about the (whjatever it is) is a pretty good thing - a demo isnt just an end in itself, thhey only really have any use if they lead on to other forms of action. its seems like a good thing to try to organise that. there are many many many very good reasons to have a go at the swp, and other such organisations. just dont think you choise very good ones that time. rich
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Sep 05, 2002, 10:11
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wow, what the feck happened with that first paragraph???? crazy man n thinknig about it a bit more......i think that exactly what demo/event it is will make a big big difference to how swp operate. so when its a firefighters, anl, anti-war demo, they'll be there good and early, and even stay late maybe. if its an anti-road, greeny issue generally, they'll more than likely behave just as you say they do
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Sep 05, 2002, 14:49
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Socialist Alliance? Bah! Just 2 points for you lot, there's loads of you! But on the donkey jackets thing, they *are* still out there! They used to be popular up till the 80s (good proletarian clothing), but then they were replaces by fluorescent jackets in the workplace. Fluoresence is a bit too loud for socialist dress sense (tho the crusty anarchos love it), and so some still cling to the donkey jacket despite its manual-worker allegiance being a thing of the past. The donkey-jacket wearer is the sartorial memory of the class?
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Sep 05, 2002, 15:01
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"the notion that the SWP turn up late just to hand out placards n then sod off is just not true" I was in Prague for the World Bank/IMF thing. The SWP organised coaches to Prague. They turned up on the morning of the main march, went behind the yellow route (which was always gonna be blocked at a 4-lane road brige so didn't need bolstering, unlike the other routes that actually got to the Conference Centre), then sodded off at the end of the afternoon! If they were gonna turn up during the 3-day meeting, why not do it on one of the 2 other days when there's more need for numbers? Halfway across Europe for no effect whatsoever! When I got back from Prague, guess who were already doing public meetings with 'eyewitness' accounts? You are tight that the speakers are feckin dull. Indeed, marches are feckin dull. Why walk around for 3 hours to listen to some MP or trade unionist tell you why you're there? I *know* why I'm there, otherwise I wouldn't be there! Yet the SWP, in another of it's anachronisms and waste of focus, keeps on plugging away with marches on the streets and speakers. I have to suspect that it's because these things are marshalled and disciplined, they keep a clear divison between the homgenised mass and the elite who have a clear voice. Having members of the group acting autonomously, as if their opinion wrere equal to that of a Central Committee member, would undermine the power of those at the top.
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