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U-Know! Forum » Ian Tomlinson cop: no charges |
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:29
Jul 22, 2010, 13:23
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The Sea Cat wrote: [quote="IanB What I am expecting is there to be an out-break of protests from the suburbs and the wealthier provincial areas and an increase in middle class activism that will be essentially coming from a right wing libertarian position (though wont be articualted like that in the media) opposing the role of the financial institutions and state apparatus in general. [/quote] I agree. I have made this point myself in this and other related threads. However, if this kind of middle class activism helps force a Government change or scrapping of these heinous policies to any sensible degree, then that can only be of benefit to us all. Really? Don't see that myself. It can only push Cameron further to right. You are talking about ushering in a rainbow alliance of UKIP, BNP, Countryside Alliance and all manner of right wing crazies. Except all the colours in this particular rainbow will be grey. I don't know how old you are but this government have nothing on Thatcher et al. I'd take a century of the tepid Toryism that we have today over five years of that lot.
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The Sea Cat 3608 posts |
Jul 22, 2010, 13:32
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No. That is most definitely not what I'm advocating here. I think all the Labour oppositon has to do is sit back and wait. They'll be back in within 2 years max, and I'd rather have them back, 'modifiied' warts and all, than any previous Tory government ( I was born in'68 by the way ) or this disgusting shower. Far from ideal, sure, but preferable, in my mind anyway.
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:37
Jul 22, 2010, 13:34
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I see absolutely no chance of there being any kind of organised middle class activism achieving anything in this country, of either kind being described. Sure, there may be the odd angry protest of handfuls but any kind of genuine state threatening, policy changing, protest is going to come from exactly the same groups of people that it always does. However, those groups may get more support from the middle classes than they have in recent times. but it will be mostly sideline support. nowt wrong with that, that would be great. Mind you, protest does fuck all, it'll be riots and direct actions that will count from now on. The middle class have never signed up for that kind of thing. If they have jobs, and they have a roof over their heads, no matter how poor they may get, as long as they're better off than others they will not cause a fuss. Same for all classes in this country now really. As long as the state can keep a majority fed, clothed and housed and the vocal minority weak, vilified and unsupported then they can continue to hold power. Edit : I'd love to be optimistic but just because there are bigger cunts than usual in power doesn't mean the laws of politics and society have changed.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:43
Jul 22, 2010, 13:43
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The Sea Cat wrote: No. That is most definitely not what I'm advocating here. I think all the Labour oppositon has to do is sit back and wait. They'll be back in within 2 years max, and I'd rather have them back, 'modifiied' warts and all, than any previous Tory government ( I was born in'68 by the way ) or this disgusting shower. Far from ideal, sure, but preferable, in my mind anyway. That is admirably optimisitc. I would of course prefer to see a leftist party in power however compromised but they need an electable charismatic leader first and I am not seeing one on the horizon. We live in a country that leans to the centre right most of the time and Labour always has to be much more on its game than the Tories to make an impact in elections. The Tories can often get away with average leadership. Labour can't. Right now it is a long long way away from being electable.
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stray 2057 posts |
Jul 22, 2010, 13:45
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IanB wrote: The Tories can often get away with average leadership. Labout can't. Right now it is a long long way away from being electable. But that is no true, the reason Blair held power for so long has an awful lot to do with very, very average Tory leadership. In fact even now with Cameron they failed to win an election outright on their own, and Brown was a dead man walking.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:48
Jul 22, 2010, 13:47
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stray wrote: I see absolutely no chance of there being any kind of organised middle class activism achieving anything in this country, of either kind being described. Sure, there may be the odd angry protest of handfuls but any kind of genuine state threatening, policy changing, protest is going to come from exactly the same groups of people that it always does. However, those groups may get more support from the middle classes than they have in recent times. but it will be mostly sideline support. nowt wrong with that, that would be great. I don't think it is about numbers on the streets any more. It is about how the activism is reported. The right wing media are gagging for some kind of grass roots, right wing activism. Anti urban, anti immigrant, anti taxation, anti (so-called) big government. Only takes a handful of people and the compilicity of the Sun, Mail and Sky news. I don't think that will be great at all. It would be very ugly. The return of Tebbit Toryism without the constraints of party politics. Shudder.
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IanB 6761 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:49
Jul 22, 2010, 13:49
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stray wrote: IanB wrote: The Tories can often get away with average leadership. Labout can't. Right now it is a long long way away from being electable. But that is no true, the reason Blair held power for so long has an awful lot to do with very, very average Tory leadership. In fact even now with Cameron they failed to win an election outright on their own, and Brown was a dead man walking. But love him or hate him Blair was a brilliant leader. The Tories would have needed a Thatcher to beat him. Hague could have beaten Brown this year.
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stray 2057 posts |
Jul 22, 2010, 13:53
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IanB wrote: I don't think it is about numbers on the streets any more. It is about how the activism is reported. The right wing media are gagging for some kind of grass roots, right wing activism. Anti urban, anti immigrant, anti taxation, anti (so-called) big government. Only takes a hanfful of people and the compilicity of the Sun, Mail and Sky news. I don't think that will be great at all. It would be very ugly. The return of Tebbit Toryism without the constraints of party politics. Shudder. Yeah, christ. You could be on to something here (thinks of Germany in the early 1930s). You know, with the sky news scum (Adam Boulton & Kay Burley) being roundly laughed at..um.. they may be the voice of our silent minority after all. It's really difficult for me to tell as I'm surrounded by like-minded people who find them and their ilk to be completely on the opposing end of sanity and reality. All we can do is rely on this countries strong aversion to the far right, which, against all reasonable evidence, I still believe exists.
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Jul 22, 2010, 13:55
Jul 22, 2010, 13:55
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Ha, actually I reckon Hague could have won with a working majority. He would have just needed a few more HIGNFY appearances ;) Recently he has been more impressive in the house than Cameron on the few occasions he's filled in for him.
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Kid Calamity 9048 posts |
Jul 22, 2010, 14:18
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Utterly unbelievable. We'd all better be careful next time we viciously and provocatively walk home from work.
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