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U-Know! Forum » The weak forum project.. |
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Jan 20, 2009, 15:22
Jan 20, 2009, 15:16
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shanshee_allures wrote: There is a uniquenss here, a fine balance to be got but I do not think many of us here have that much of an depth a knowledge or even the will to fully go into any *really* heavy discussion on Israel etc. True of now, not the way U-Know used to be however. There was a time a few years ago when a thread on Israel, and the protests against the actions in Gaza would have been a very large thread indeed. shanshee_allures wrote: I don't even think the nature of the site would accomodate it that well, thankfully. I don't see that as 'weak' at all. We can opinionate, sure. TBH, I do like posts that don't particularly rely on 'links' to validate their existence and the odd tangent here and there is ok. Those that do are of course essential to debate also. Damn it man, dunno what yer moaning about quite frankly;) Links to validate them. What ? Are you saying that posts with nothing to back them up are preferable ? seriously ? You prefer posts like the one locodogz recently posted where he plucked figures from his imagination to justify himself ? Or are you saying you prefer to take posts on face value, believe them, and don't expect the poster to actually prove or substantiate their argument ? Personally I always want to see the data. Give me the data. Now. Shoot it, all over my face...er... etc.. I pretty much agree theres nothing worth moaning about, this place is pretty much dead as a serious political forum (I'll say again, that is what its supposed to be). I no longer see any difference between this forum and the village pump. I mean, even the post subjects and discussion regularly crossover a lot between here and there. From my own standpoint, and seeing which threads here generate the most posts, and what the consensus opinion is on any given subject.. it's all a bit of a priveleged discussion fora innit ? Thats natural for any forum in the first world tbh. However, if this forum was a class it would be the extremely privileged end of the middle, which again isn't surprising, and arguably thats not a negative conclusion either I suppose. But, to reiterate, the concerns and interests here are not by any stretch meeting Merricks original purpose as a forum to discuss righteous direct action. Yeah, I know, the U-know forum description has been a bit toned down since then. My point remains though, why on earth post about anything here when you may as well post in the Village Pump for exactly the same discussion. I can't remember when you joined Shansee but I figure you missed the renaming of the Village Pump, it used to be just called Head to Head. Holy was pissed about the general silliness, and the dumb irrelevant posts there and he wanted to delete the forum entirely. He backed down and renamed it the Village Pump as a place where the village idiots could meet each other and talk crap. Oh, and er, to clarify, I was definitely viewed as one of the idiots back then anyroad :D Point is, things have been changed here in the past, so it's not beyond possible for things to change again. Unsung and TMA are the forums here that make the place. The village pump now is like any general discussion forum on any other site. I reckon U-Know should just go, as what goes on here would adequately fit into the Pump, along with all the silliness and jokes we post there too. I mean, this is the slowest forum on this site, it's never been particularly zippy, but it's slowing down to nothing. I also think, much like Holy used to about the old H2H forum that this forum (U-Know) makes the place look embarassing. I'm going to get a slap for back seat modding from holy now, I know it. ;) Edit : KC has unwittingly proved this point with his multi forum post 'Keep it LOUD', check the reply counts.
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shanshee_allures 2563 posts |
Edited Jan 20, 2009, 19:09
Jan 20, 2009, 19:06
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stray wrote: Links to validate them. What ? Are you saying that posts with nothing to back them up are preferable ? seriously ? You prefer posts like the one locodogz recently posted where he plucked figures from his imagination to justify himself ? Or are you saying you prefer to take posts on face value, believe them, and don't expect the poster to actually prove or substantiate their argument ? No, I refer to posts without 'links' in the context of a those that are examples of personal gripes that may not have an accompanying reference point but can be of some interest to others. I posted one about how I find it abhorrent that state schools offer school trips ranging from day trips to Bognor to a week's skiing in Switzerland and the social inequality that causes in a supposedly socially equal environment. I didnlt provide any data or nowt but I didn't think it was necessary considering. I got some interesting responses I don't think I would've got on the V.P, just coz the nature of it seems different to me. Everyone who was interested enough sort of 'treated' it fairly seriously too for the same reason I guess. Too tame perhaps, but my intentions were honest all the same. x
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Ascorpius 82 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 19:19
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I don't think this forum was actually set up to change the world. If we share items of interest here which in turn allows us to go away and learn more then it is doing it's job.
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stray 2057 posts |
Edited Jan 20, 2009, 19:26
Jan 20, 2009, 19:21
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Ah right, I get what you mean. I still reckon you'ld have got the same discussion in VP though. I'm not saying things are too tame here, or too fluffy non-issue. It would be wrong to judge anyones concerns in the wider context of world events as being irrelevant. I'm not saying that, I think a functioning U-Know could actually carry issues of all weights and importance. I get this kind of thing a lot at the moment while I'm immersing myself in modern feminist theory. Feminist issues that are genuine issues here, in the US and europe are easily attacked as being pointless when viewed against the suffering and inequalities of women in Africa, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc, etc. BUT they're still bloody issues, and they still need addressing. (I could go on for a long time here, as to the importance of dealing with first world feminist issues, but I won't.) Attacking something because its seemingly an unimportant issue in the grand scheme of things is to me a hideous politic. So yeah, keep posting that stuff I'm saying. But see, right now, while Obama has been sworn in the best discussion has been in the VP. Edit : Or rather, the only discussion of the event is in the VP.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 19:32
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The point you make about feminist concerns in the west is interesting... it has both been strengthened and weakened in different ways in the sense that some goals were reached, which led many to declare the battle won too early. This is exactly what happened to African American liberation in the late sixties, too. MLK was able to achieve a foothold for his people that many mistook as the end of the fight. As a consequence, there was a lot of false perceptions of just how much they'd gained, and the collective power of the freedom movement collapsed. Basic lesson everyone should learn... don't count your chickens before they're hatched? Or maybe just 'Stay sharp, because there's someone always ready to take away what you've fought for.'
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Moon Cat 9577 posts |
Edited Jan 20, 2009, 19:36
Jan 20, 2009, 19:34
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Well as it is, in essence as you say a sub-forum and not really the main focus of the site, I think U-Know equits itself pretty well. And, as you have argued elsewhere, there is an almost inevitable preaching to the converted air of consensus on a lot of subjects simply by the nature of people that find there way here cos of Mr. Cope. Don't think that's a bad thing as such - it's not Newsnight.com. As for it being 'weak', well I suppose that depends on what you expect it's function to be. Personally I've always seen it as a kind of info-point conscious raising platform and I've certainly learned stuff and benefitted from people posting on here. And I think for the most part the level of debate is pretty good. I've sniffed around other so-called political (which this isn't really) sites and been dismayed to see frequent occurences of 'issues of the day' being 'debated' in a maelstrom of red-top style invective and sub-editorial soundbites. I certainly think there might have been flame out instances on U-Know in the past that might have put people off sticking their heads back in here again. I know I've looked at some threads and groaned cos someone's gone off on one and shit is flung hither and thither. Thing is, if Head Heritage is to function as the thing it seems to have become i.e. evolving from essentially an artists info website into a community, then I suppose it's only natural that the sense of community might take priority over the urge to harangue and cajole a debate into action. Call me a wuss, but I certainly favour the "play nice" line over "Do you want some you reactionary Capitalist Dog" simply because I like this place and the people in it and I think a bit of harmonious banter is fairly welcome at this moment in time. I think U-Know is a thing worth having and for myself, have read interesting things on it and I think it functions pretty good in the context of Head Heritage as a whole. And if anyone disagrees I will gouge their eyes out and skull-fuck them until they're dead. 8^)
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PMM 3155 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 19:38
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I'm wary of reopening the same old debate TBH, Stray. The principles Vs electability thing has been done here time after time. My main protagonist on that issue here, HandOfDave is well aware of my views, as I am of his, and I think we respect each others opinion. As far as the bigger issue of This Forum is concerned, well to me it's a haven. It's nice to have support for my beliefs, instead of just being shouted down. It's a repository of well written and eloquant ideas, and they're not so hard to dig out from the pile of steaming shit that passes for argument on most forums I've visited. It's something that has forced me to admit that I couldn't support my point of view on everything I believed, and in some cases, I've had to change what I think. And that's precisely because of the work that people here have put into this board.
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handofdave 3515 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 19:48
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PMM wrote: My main protagonist on that issue here, HandOfDave is well aware of my views Don't you mean antagonist? Put up yer dukes of stratosphere, cat-head! ;-)
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PMM 3155 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 20:28
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I suspect you may be right. Oh no! Out-Englished by an American :(
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Shelby Mustang 605 posts |
Jan 20, 2009, 20:32
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mooncat. dare i not be reactionary and say that's as clear as it's gonna get. beautifully put mate. you really are a bright spark aren't you...not sure about your sexual habits though dearie x
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