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U-Know! Forum » Why haven't we had a rant about Mugabe |
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 15:37
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I just realised that the situation here has not been mentioned at all. Perhaps this is because none of us really know more than the guy's being a complete bastard. Anyone know more than that? I know about media shutdown and now the opposition are being arrested and charged with all sorts of bullshit, but why is no one really doing anything to intervene?
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embryonomore 853 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 18:06
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Mugabe = Bad Egg Thats all I know I'm afraid. So many evil men, so little time.
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Billy Milk 2045 posts |
Feb 26, 2002, 18:27
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sanctions in place, what more can we do?
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stray 2057 posts |
Feb 27, 2002, 15:23
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We could prolly finance some mental right wing militia out there. Give 'em all 'Freedom fighter' sticker sets and a 'how to kill guys worse than you' manual. Trouble with that solution though is disarming mental right wing militia once the job is completed. Fuck it, get the CIA in there, they've got nothing else on at the moment *allegedly*
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Feb 28, 2002, 11:02
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I never like to refer to anyone as evil, not even Thatcher or Morrissey, as it does no good in helping us to understand what actually motivates that person, or explain why they do what they do. Mugabe is a deeply complex man who has excellent reasons for his behaviour (within his own narrow terms of reference). We can’t simply dismiss him as evil – was he evil when he led the opposition to the apartheid state in the 70’s? No he was something of a hero. I knew several black Zimbabweans when I was at Uni in the mid-80’s and they – all good intelligent lefty people had massive respect for Mugabe. Why? Because he took on the white state and won, and helped transform the country into one where people didn’t starve regularly, had civil rights, an education, etc etc. So what happened? The economic collapse a few years ago is probably the most important factor – suddenly you couldn’t simply trade on previous successes because famine was coming back, along with mass unemployment. So some kind of scapegoat needed to be found. Hence, the homophobia and the farm reclamations. Now the farm reclamations was a brilliant idea, it had always been a sore point – when Carrington agreed to Zanu-PF becoming the new govt one of his stipulations for UK Govt support was that there would be no major redistribution of land. I mean the few whites still there still owned something like 80-90% of the land – all because there great great granddaddies had nicked it. So reclaiming it and giving it to those that thought for independence is RIGHT. And its why Mugabe does still regain a hell of a lot of support. Even good friends here, he just saw him as taking land of white scumbags, thought it was a good idea. Of course its all bull, and all he’s doing is giving the land to his supporters, though I think I’d rather they had it than the old colonialists. And this is partly why mos tof the world aint made tro big a fuss – the issues involved raise to many questions for other countries. I mean, South Africa has yet to deal with land redistribution, and they are gonna have to, and it isn’t going to be prettily done either. So what can we do? Ummm, not entirely sure no. Support sanctions (the ones in place are so piss poor its almost unbelievable), contribute to the opposition coffers, and work for a government here that will actually try and do some of these things, rather than a government which will talk big but do little. sorry to go on like rich
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FourWinds 10943 posts |
Feb 28, 2002, 11:14
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That's a great reply and the sort of thing I was after. It addresses all th ethings I had wondered about. i.e. Why is this bloke suddenly being like this? As you say his past reputation is fantastic. The work he did was way up there. Obviously, I don't care if he takes back the land for the people, but as you mention its redistribution is a little unfair. There is a new colonialist emerging - The Friends Of Mugabe Society. What can we do? Nowt but support proper sanctions to wake him up again; remind him of what he strived so hard to achieve.
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spirit 182 posts |
Feb 28, 2002, 13:38
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So you don't think this is a case of power corrupting - the guy as you all say clearly had the right ideas when he originally came to power & I accept that redistribution of land was quite rightly one of those. However, don't you think that he is now engaged in a struggle just to stay in charge because he likes being in charge not out of the idealism that originally took him to that position? THere are ways and means of redistributing land and my personal opinion is that he is currently buying in /repaying favours not seeking to maximise the benefits for his country's people but I may be wrong. I also have real concerns about his attitude on AIDS and why and how it spreads - people are dying through a lack of real information and dying in an extremely protracted and unpleasant way - not least because third world countries can't afford 1st world drug prices - but if he got his act together on prevention it might help. Suspect the rest of the world doesn't care because it is a piss poor African state and has no natural assets left to strip - so why get involved. xx spirit
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Feb 28, 2002, 15:02
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Absolutely! No question (in my mind) that he’s handing out favours to mates, and trying to buy a few votes. Redistribution is clearly vital, but there is no way Mugabe can do it equitably. This does raise the issue of how it CAN be done equitably, which is a biggie, because although the land should just be seized and the old colonialists told to fuck of, there’s no way the UK, or most other western countries would accept that – that would be far worse than just killing a few of your opponents. I think the west is having to face up to having to do SOMETHING just because they know that the same issue is going to kick off in South Africa, and they are not going to be able to ignore it then. Because that is when it is going to start to threaten some serious western interests And as for what you say about AIDS, well again absolutely! Well almost, there is a very valid point (as you intimate) that drugs are not the only answer. Dealing with appalling poverty also makes a massive difference to the length and quality of life someone with AIDS will achieve. But Mugabe isn’t really doing anything about that either. I’m not entirely sure it is as simple as ‘power corrupts’, but that sure aint far off the mark!
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AgentOrange 221 posts |
Feb 28, 2002, 15:11
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I have a friend living in Zim and grill her for info every time she comes over. Her point of view, of course, if of a middle-class white person, so Im sure there are other points of view. RMs gone mad, hes destroying his own country. Before christmas, internally it was known that there was only a few weeks worth of food left. What has happened??? Very little is being produced internally now, and there's no money with the people to import. I like the idea of sanctions that stop politicians from travelling to their holiday homes in Europe, but I dunno if theyd work. Theres a radio station operating in London for ex nationals, anyone heard it?
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necropolist 1689 posts |
Mar 13, 2002, 16:45
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strangely the only person man enough to stick up for democracy around the world hasn't yet made any comment (that I've seen) regarding Mugabe. Why could that be, surely the blatant rigging of an election, getting judges to disallow any extension in voting/counting times, physical intimidation by state forces of those likely to support your opponent, and getting your family members to gerrymander voter roles is such a blatantly criminal act that it deserves some comment. What? aah, yes.....
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