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U-Know! Forum » No treatment for you, fatty... |
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 13:00
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Nah, I kinda agree, doctors should be relied on to make the ight decisions. And, it should be a properly considered value judgement not a set of rules that they chek off to come to a conclusion. ("Weight? Oh, dear...sorry...") People (say George Best for example) can't expect to just keep getting patched up, you need to take some responsibility for yourself. It's just a shame that this will more than likely increase the health gap between the rich and poor. I'm all for them checking how many points you've got on your licence in A&E following a car crash.
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 13:03
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"repeatedly" Oh, such a perfect choice of word. To the point of extreme repetitive tedium. Which is how I knew (don't care what anyone else says) that he was all three. In fact, certain persons round here have suspiions about another of us being the same, but the jury's still out.
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Rhiannon 5291 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 13:16
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"It's just a shame that this will more than likely increase the health gap between the rich and poor." Somebody said this morning (radio? other forum?) that George Best probably paid a lot to have a 'private' liver. I think he's pretty penniless though? And are there such things as private livers anyway? - I wonder how the lists work. Anyway I can see that it would be more than possible to jump a donation queue because you were rich - assuming doctors have no morals. But they are supposed to are they not. Private healthcare eh. I had a big argument about this the other day. The other person couldn't really see that I thought equality in healthcare no matter what your salary was actually different from me wanting everyone to own the same flashy car etc. He thinks if you earn more you deserve more and can't see any difference between healthcare and other services. (this from a man who will inherit millions, the git, so it's academic to him). Pah. "I'm all for them checking how many points you've got on your licence in A&E following a car crash." You are naughty. But if you're falling down drunk when they pick you out the wreckage, maybe you should have to sober up in the waiting room before they sew your leg back on.
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Wiggy 1696 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 15:18
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I dunno Rhiannon - I think a lot of the time round here it depends if yr on the inside pissing out or the outside pissing in. There's a lot of folk round here with "attitude" who repeat themselves - and I actually don't mind that at all - but it does seem a bit cliquey sometimes, and it does depend who you are as to whether you are allowed to stay or not. As for boring threads - I just don't engage if there's nothing in it for me. Ronnie is right I suppose, the owners of this site don't have to let you in, but I think its a shame that people can't take (or just ignore) a bit of attitude.
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Wiggy 1696 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 15:20
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Hope you don't think it's me! You have met me but we wuz both drunk. =;o)
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Rolling Ronnie 1468 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 15:24
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'but I think its a shame that people can't take (or just ignore) a bit of attitude' Totally agree Wiggy. If someone winds us up we don't HAVE to read their posts at all if we choose not to.
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anthonyqkiernan 7087 posts |
Nov 25, 2005, 17:21
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I wasn't really talking about private healthcare, just the fact that you are morelikely to be obese/smoke/whatever if you are 'poor'
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Dec 07, 2005, 14:59
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You're assuming an alcoholic or other addict is addicted out of choice. By definition, an addict's compulsion is beyond their control and so they cannot take full responsibility for it. Most addicts are not stupid, they know their addiction is fucking them up but cannot help it. They have often had events and pressures in their lives that lead them to feel helpless. To blame an addict for their condition is largely an act of blaming the victim. Most addicts really want to stop using, and indeed George Best got a new liver and swore he'd never drink again. AQK's comparison with dangerous drivers needing car crashes has some merit. All of us do things (or omit to do things) that have a detrimental effect on our health. Addicts and obese people treatment deserve treatment for the same reason the people with HIV or people mugged when walking through dodgy areas deserve treatment.
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Merrick 2148 posts |
Dec 07, 2005, 15:16
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It's not a matter of having attitude. There's a lot of strong opinionated buggers on here, and that's generally all to the good. We should be able to come here and have our ideas tested and chew around issues a bit. But if someone comes on a forum specifically dedicated to 'direct action and righteous talk' and opposes direct action and being 'self-righteous' they're in the wrong lpace. That in itself isn't a reason to kick them off, though. If they make one point, then instead of dealing with the reasons why it doean't stand up they just restate thier first point with increasing levels of insult and abuse they are making no positive contribution. More, they discourage posts from people who have valid points to make but don't want to be insulted. So it becomes a choice between banning those who can't follow a line of argument/dish out abuse and effectively barring those who don't want to be the target of that abuse. And it's not a matter of not reading posts by that person; to get to such a stage they will have already have been seriously abusive, they have changed the nature of the forum, and, like I said, knowing the abusive person is there will discourage people from initiating threads. There's a high level of worthwhile thought and exchange here, and a large number of us value the forum highly. It takes some maintaining in order to allow it to continue to the same standard, especially as more and more people get the internet at work and are sat bored in front of a computer all day. We're pretty good at chilling people out ourselves when they get overheated without the need for moderators, pretty much everyone here has strong opinions but also a better side that can be appealed to if they've flown off the handle a bit. Occasionally, however, there's gonna be someone who won't have any of it. People are not readily banned here. As ToneStone and OghamSunFace were the same person, as was Lemon/Manao/Hongman/Kalamasi, that's three in the last couple of years. Having talked to people who frequent other forums, that's pretty amazing going.
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Nat 1905 posts |
Dec 07, 2005, 15:23
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"Most addicts are not stupid, they know their addiction is fucking them up but cannot help it. They have often had events and pressures in their lives that lead them to feel helpless. To blame an addict for their condition is largely an act of blaming the victim." They can help it, in most cases, but decide not too as they think they are invincible and 'it won't happen to them'... I phoned my ex (who is an alcoholic) the day George Best died, as I was very upset about it as when I saw pics of George I saw pictures of the ex... and he said to me - 'don't worry as that won't happen to me as I'm not an alcoholic'... he won't take help despite the fact he's spent most of the summer in hospital through alcohol... I blame him totally as an addict not a victim. It's not only his life he's fucked up but mine and his families and I'm angry..... He had a choice and has always had a choice which he chose to ignore. It's his own fault he's the way he is - noone forced the alcohol down his neck apart from him, he chose to drink the amount he has. To pander and go 'ohh poor fella he's a victim of Society' just fules his belief that there is nothing wrong with him.... and working with alcoholics like I do, I know full well he's not the only one who thinks like this! "Most addicts really want to stop using, and indeed George Best got a new liver and swore he'd never drink again." Some addicts want to stop using and those that do will. There are a large majority that don't and won't and George Best was one of these...
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